4th and 8 was my 62-7 moment for the Ballard/Steichen regime.

[Thorgrim]

After studying all the finger pointing this morning I am nearing the conclusion that neither Steichen or Jones are cerebral enough to sustain success in their respective roles.

[Dam8610]

Originally Posted by albany ed

I kinda disagree. If he went for it on 4th and 8 and came up short, game over and the criticism would have been louder than the fans at Arrowhead were all night. To me, the mistake happened earlier just after NYC gave the Colts life after the long completion and near fumble. With the Chiefs selling out to stop the run, the Colts ran twice bringing up 3rd and 13. At 3rd and 13, the Chiefs were all about stopping the pass. 3 plays and the Colts ran the play the Chiefs were defending on each and every one. The Colts are not a juggernaut on offense that can ignore what the defense is doing and still dominate. Either first or second down should have been play action. That's where the defense was weakest at that time.

I feel bad for the players, they played well enough to win this game

If the Colts had gone for it and not converted on 4th and 8, that's a decision worth defending. You're taking a chance to win the game, and taking control of the outcome of the game completely away from the other team's best player. Whether you convert or fail on 4th and 8, Patrick Mahomes has zero influence on the game's outcome in that situation. How many teams would've killed for a situation like that against the Peyton Manning led Colts?

[Colts And Orioles]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

After studying all the finger pointing this morning, I am nearing the conclusion that neither Steichen or Jones are cerebral enough to sustain success in their respective roles.

o


That may be true for Steichen ...... but I suspect that it may not be true for Jones.

I think Jones' problem is not so much a lack of brains, but rather a lack of courage to defy his head coach when said head coach orders a play-call that is highly flawed.

When Bill Walton was a senior at UCLA and his team had their 88-game win-streak snapped by a monumental and historic comeback by Notre Dame, he said that he thought that calling a timeout in the middle of Notre Dame's 10-0 run was needed ...... but he didn't do it, because John Wooden did not believe in calling time-outs when under duress ...... Wooden asserted that they were UCLA, and UCLA was the team that forced other teams to call time-outs under duress, not the other way around. Wooden felt that calling time out under duress was an admission of defeat.

When talking about that game many years later, Walton said that at that time he had not yet learned that it is better to be chastised for doing the right thing on the spot than to avoid criticism after the fact by obeying orders ...... Walton was plenty smart enough to know what to do, but the 21 year-old college senior was not experienced in life enough yet to summon up the courage to buck his head coach's orders.

The difference with Daniel Jones is that he is not a 21 year-old college senior like Bill Walton was back then, he is a 29 year-old veteran pro quarterback who needs to stop acting as though he is the former in certain crucial situations.

o

[Dam8610]

Originally Posted by Kray007

If you go for it on 4th and 8 and don’t make it, you’re going to be flayed for your monumental stupidity.

For everyone bitching about the run on 1st down, I pose the simple question…why didn’t Jones audible out of the play? I suppose that the crowd noise made calling an audible precarious, but you have 2 timeouts. Blow through one of them.

I don't agree with that premise. If they go for it on 4th and 8, the defense is built in. The defense is: that's Patrick Mahomes on the other sideline, we were 18 yards away from a score that wins us the game and doesn't give him any more chances to win it. That's not stupid, it's choosing to go down swinging rather than giving Mahomes any more chances. If anyone second guessed that decision, they don't understand football.

[apballin]

Colts defense was beyond gassed they were on the field majority of the 2nd half…

You gotta let your offense win or lose that game.

So weird it almost seems like they expected to score on the long pass and didn’t have a plan if they didn’t get a TD out of it

[CletusPyle]

I would not have had a problem had he gone for the win on 4th and 8, in fact when they lined up my thoughts were respect for not playing for the tie. But had he gone and failed I would still have criticized the two runs on first and second down. I think once he squandered those two downs and then whatever that 3rd down call was....going for the FG seemed no more stupid than what he had done the 3 plays before.

I still think anyone super upset with kicking the FG is missing the forest (the previous plays in the series) for the trees (the FG).

[omahacolt]

Originally Posted by Lov2fish

How they got to 4th. & 8 bothered me more than the field goal. 4th. & 5 or less, sure I am going for it. Defense played well enough to stop them, but it is Mahomes and the game on the line. I liked his chances of scoring better than I liked ours to stop him. So far with the Gardner trade it is looking more and more like the Jets fleeced us.

ummm what?

[omahacolt]

on the 2 run plays, Jones has to be allowed to check out of the run. period. we weren't going anywhere against that front.

but yeah. all that said, still go for it on 4th and 8

[Hoopsdoc]

Originally Posted by apballin

Colts defense was beyond gassed they were on the field majority of the 2nd half…

You gotta let your offense win or lose that game.

So weird it almost seems like they expected to score on the long pass and didn’t have a plan if they didn’t get a TD out of it

It’s got to be tiring being run over and around all day.

[Lov2fish]

Originally Posted by omahacolt

ummm what?

Fair question. Let me rephrase it. They played well enough in spurts to stop them. As a whole they were inept. They did have a couple series where they looked ok, so they could, but they didn't.