Colts draft RB DJ Giddens - Round 5, Pick 151

[IndyNorm]

Originally Posted by Colts And Orioles

o


I don't blame Harper for making what turned out to be the wrong move ...... he went with his instinct to cut inside to avoid the possibility of getting pushed out of bounds in case somebody was right behind him, and it was the wrong move. It was a qucik, split-second decision, and sometimes those decisions work, and sometimes they don't ...... he was also right there to grab the loose ball and start sprinting the other way in the first place, which at least gave the Colts a chance to win what looked like an unwinnable game only one play earlier.

o

No doubt. Obviously it would have been great if he had not cut back and (likely) ran into the end zone, but he along w/ Brackett gave us a legitimate chance at a miracle comeback. And to be fair the Colts deserved to lose that game w/ how flat we came out.

[ChaosTheory]

Originally Posted by Mr. Session

Bull Shit



Or - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXsKy1OT0Ho

That was a sick cut. But I think I get what Dam is saying. I remember watching Addai all the time, bending like Gumby and half the time he'd lose balance and almost tackle himself. Ha, I'm picturing it now, can't remember the game, but like catching a wide open swing pass and starts juking back and forth with the guy 10 yards away.

I sound like I'm shitting on the dude, but it was his quirk. I liked him.

Originally Posted by Colts And Orioles

o


Or, if Nick Harper had simply kept running straight instead of cutting back to the inside portion of the field ...... Ben Roethlisberger said that there is no way that he would have been able to get his hand on Harper's ankle to trip him up if he had kept running straight, and not cut back inside.

o

It was PTSD. Only thing on his mind was to cut for some reason...

Originally Posted by Dam8610

JT may not fumble often, but when he does, it costs the team the game or possibly the season.

I think that's it. His have been pretty consequential. Even when it's not his fault... like when he got his ankle crushed against TEN and dropped the ball. Seems like we lost because of that one, too.

[Dam8610]

Originally Posted by IndyNorm

Do you think Edge had fumbling issues since he cost the Colts multiple games and HFA in the playoffs?

Or what about Jerome Bettis? He would have cost the Steelers a SB if Nick Harper's wife wouldn't have stabbed him in the league the night before our playoff game.

Objectively, yes, Edgerrin James fumbled too much. That said, I don't ever remember him fumbling by dropping the ball at the half yard line, and I can’t imagine him doing anything that boneheaded.

Originally Posted by Mr. Session

Bull Shit



Or - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXsKy1OT0Ho

I loved Addai, I was one of the few people back in 2006 who thought the Colts should draft him over Maroney.

That said, you cherry picked the best juke of his career and a pass play where he wasn't particularly elusive, but just followed his blocks and a bunch of Cheats defenders just fell down. There's no two play selection that will prove or disprove either of our opinions, and if you go look at his whole body of work, you'll see that most of the time, Addai's dancing and juking doesn't create additional yardage.

Here, do this: watch an Addai LSU highlight video, then a Giddens KSU highlight video. If you still can't see what I'm talking about after that, I don't know what to say.

Originally Posted by ChaosTheory

That was a sick cut. But I think I get what Dam is saying. I remember watching Addai all the time, bending like Gumby and half the time he'd lose balance and almost tackle himself. Ha, I'm picturing it now, can't remember the game, but like catching a wide open swing pass and starts juking back and forth with the guy 10 yards away.

Exactly. Addai's juking, shiftiness, change of direction, whatever you want to call it, more often allowed defenders to close on him and reduce his gains than it caused defenders to miss him and increase his gains.

IMO Addai was a really good RB, three down player, had ability as a runner, receiver, and blocker. But elusiveness was not one of the positive traits of his game.

[Dam8610]

Addai LSU

https://youtu.be/pT5Q0HTkPY4?si=xvQsYKS9afiGGtRx ( I do like the soundtrack on this, but also couldn't find a higher res/better quality one)

Giddens KSU:

https://youtu.be/kZXml-eYSIg?si=JsCoSmyNVbjywAf0

First minute of each video should give a clear picture.

[IndyNorm]

Originally Posted by Dam8610

Objectively, yes, Edgerrin James fumbled too much. That said, I don't ever remember him fumbling by dropping the ball at the half yard line, and I can’t imagine him doing anything that boneheaded.

Not as bad as JT's, but Edge had some really stupid fumbles trying to reach out w/ the ball for the goal line when he had been stopped short on 1st/2nd down. This includes 1 of the 2 fumbles at the Cheats in '04 that cost us HFA advantage against them.

I think that's it. His have been pretty consequential. Even when it's not his fault... like when he got his ankle crushed against TEN and dropped the ball. Seems like we lost because of that one, too.

Eh, you can cherry pick these type of plays w/ almost every player in NFL history like I did w/ Edge and Bettis earlier in the thread. Another example is Adrian Peterson, who lost a fumble in OT of the 2009 NFC Championship which in all likelihood cost the Vikings a trip to the Superbowl.


Something else I think I should address is blaming our loss vs. Balt in 2020 solely on JTs fumble. Yes, it was a large contributing factor in the loss (arguably the largest), but it happened in the 1st quarter and resulted in a 7-7 tie at the time. Balt then went on to outscore us 17-3 for the rest of the game, so it's not like we had the game completely in the bag if JT doesn't fumble in the 1st quarter.

[ChaosTheory]

Originally Posted by IndyNorm

Eh, you can cherry pick these type of plays w/ almost every player in NFL history like I did w/ Edge and Bettis earlier in the thread. Another example is Adrian Peterson, who lost a fumble in OT of the 2009 NFC Championship which in all likelihood cost the Vikings a trip to the Superbowl.

Agreed. I'm not in the camp that thinks JT has a particular issue with fumbling. Just pointing out that when he has fumbled, it's been in some game-fucking situations.

So that probably gives guys in that camp (Dam in this case) the perception that he fumbles more than he does.

[Dam8610]

Originally Posted by Mr. Session

Like Taylor and his alleged fumble issues, right?

How much does JT have to cost the team before you see him as a problem?

Originally Posted by YDFL Commish

I would like to set the record straight, before I get dragged into this JT fumbling issue. JT has no more of fumbling issue than Edge did, and yes they both fumbled at inopportune times. Edge lost us at least 2 Pats games that I can think of with fumbles.

My problems with JT are mostly an unwillingness to improve as a pass blocker, pass catcher or route runner, not to mention his utter lack of situational football awareness.

To be clear, I have all of those issues with JT as well, I just also don't like that his lackadaisical effort costs the Colts games and seasons with fumbles.

Originally Posted by ChaosTheory

Agreed. I'm not in the camp that thinks JT has a particular issue with fumbling. Just pointing out that when he has fumbled, it's been in some game-fucking situations.

So that probably gives guys in that camp (Dam in this case) the perception that he fumbles more than he does.

He had a fumble issue coming into the NFL. Coaching reduced his overall fumbles, but his fumbles tend to really fucking hurt the team, as does his inability (unwillingness) to improve in pass pro, which takes him off the field in crucial situations.

[Mr. Session]

Originally Posted by Dam8610

How much does JT have to cost the team before you see him as a problem?

You're hilarious.

[IndyNorm]

Originally Posted by ChaosTheory

Agreed. I'm not in the camp that thinks JT has a particular issue with fumbling. Just pointing out that when he has fumbled, it's been in some game-fucking situations.

So that probably gives guys in that camp (Dam in this case) the perception that he fumbles more than he does.

If anything it shows that the Colts teams JT has been on have a lot less margin for error than Colts teams back in our hay day. But with that being said though, objectively speaking he really hasn't cost the Colts any more games from fumbling than just about any other NFL RB who had as many touches as JT has had.

How much does JT have to cost the team before you see him as a problem?

How much clear, objective evidence does it take for you to admit that you're wrong about something?

[Dam8610]

Originally Posted by IndyNorm

If anything it shows that the Colts teams JT has been on have a lot less margin for error than Colts teams back in our hay day. But with that being said though, objectively speaking he really hasn't cost the Colts any more games from fumbling than just about any other NFL RB who had as many touches as JT has had.

Name a game Derrick Henry has cost his team with a fumble. I hate him, but I have to acknowledge reality.

Originally Posted by IndyNorm

How much clear, objective evidence does it take for you to admit that you're wrong about something?

Let's start with any and go from there. We'll get to a threshold eventually.