Colts draft RB DJ Giddens - Round 5, Pick 151

[Dam8610]

Originally Posted by YDFL Commish

Giddens reminds me so much of Addai. Watch their college tape side by side and you'll see what I mean.

I see what you're saying, but Addai's shimmies never worked that well. Honestly as a runner he reminds me of JT with less fumble issues, and as a receiver, when he catches the ball he reminds me of Edge, but he has to get more consistent with catching the ball. Honestly the place he reminds me most of Addai is pass pro, where he's willing but not great at it, but that's a step up from unwilling JT.

Originally Posted by YDFL Commish

#1 He has Russell Wilson disease (a complete phony)
#2 He has no desire to improve (see below) (see above)
#3 He sucks in the passing game...can't catch or run routes
#4 He sucks as a pass blocker
#5 No situational awareness or football sense. People want to point out the Denver game, but his gawd awful performance in the Giants game put him on my shit list.

There are two parts of football that are all about effort and desire for a RB, IMO at least. They are protecting the football (keeping fumbles to a minimum) and pass pro. JT sucks at both, which tells me he has all the talent in the world and no or very little desire to improve.

[Mr. Session]

Addai had a great headfake, a solid jumpcut, and could run with power. I didn't think the dancing was all that effective either but when he was hitting on all cylinders he was a pretty damn good running back.

I think he ran with a lot more power at LSU then the kid out of KS does but I see the similarities in their elusiveness. Some guys have that, some guys don't. This kid out of KS has it, clearly, and Addai had it in a way Donald Brown simply didn't (Hated that pick but loved how he finished here).

Comparing Addai to Taylor, to me, is nuts. Taylor is a North South guy at his very core. Whenever Taylor starts trying to go lateral and play with an agility skill set he looks average.

[Dam8610]

Originally Posted by Mr. Session

Addai had a great headfake, a solid jumpcut, and could run with power. I didn't think the dancing was all that effective either but when he was hitting on all cylinders he was a pretty damn good running back.

I think he ran with a lot more power at LSU then the kid out of KS does but I see the similarities in their elusiveness. Some guys have that, some guys don't. This kid out of KS has it, clearly, and Addai had it in a way Donald Brown simply didn't (Hated that pick but loved how he finished here).

Comparing Addai to Taylor, to me, is nuts. Taylor is a North South guy at his very core. Whenever Taylor starts trying to go lateral and play with an agility skill set he looks average.

Who compared Addai to Taylor? YDFL compared Giddens to Addai, while I said that Giddens reminded me of JT as a runner, a less consistent Edge as a receiver, and Addai in pass pro.

That said, watch Giddens run and tell me you don't see JT with better ball protection and less breakaway speed.

[Mr. Session]

Originally Posted by Dam8610

Who compared Addai to Taylor? YDFL compared Giddens to Addai, while I said that Giddens reminded me of JT as a runner, a less consistent Edge as a receiver, and Addai in pass pro.

That said, watch Giddens run and tell me you don't see JT with better ball protection and less breakaway speed.

I can't fucking read, you're right; My bad.

I genuinely see more Addai in the guy, personally. I do not really see how he compares to Taylor.

[ChaosTheory]

Piqued my interest regarding fumble stats, so I looked it up. Fumble rate is apparently not conveniently aggregated, but I found this list of NFL RB's with 3000+ career rush attempts and how many fumbles they had:

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/low...-3000-attempts

If you do the math:

• Curtis Martin was a freak, fumbling once every 121 attempts.
• Ladainian Tomlinson was next best at once every 102 attempts.
• Jerome Bettis once every 85 attempts
• Frank Gore once every 81 attempts.
• Barry Sanders once every 75 attempts.
• Emmitt Smith once every 72 attempts.
• Edgerrin James once every 69 attempts.
• Adrian Peterson once every 66 attempts.
• Walter Payton and Marcus Allen were worst, fumbling once every 45 and 46 attempts respectively.

If you do the math on JT, he's got 13 total fumbles on 1228 carries. Meaning he fumbles once every 94 attempts, which would be good for third on this list. Even if he gets worse in the latter part of his career, he probably ends up in the range of Sanders, Smith, James, and Peterson at worst.

Just to give an idea.

[ChaosTheory]

I know JT was a shit head, and he definitely had some costly, untimely fumbles for us... and his pass blocking is not there.

But the good outweighs the bad by a lot. His vision and patience is really good, he's big and downhill on contact, and nobody can catch him if he hits a crease. Rewatch even last year's tape. He had 1400+yds in 14 games. Only two others were better.

I'm not anxious to lose him, although I do like the young guy the more I watch him.

[Dam8610]

Originally Posted by ChaosTheory

I know JT was a shit head, and he definitely had some costly, untimely fumbles for us... and his pass blocking is not there.

But the good outweighs the bad by a lot. His vision and patience is really good, he's big and downhill on contact, and nobody can catch him if he hits a crease. Rewatch even last year's tape. He had 1400+yds in 14 games. Only two others were better.

I'm not anxious to lose him, although I do like the young guy the more I watch him.

I'm not saying JT is not a net positive, I'm saying he's an elite runner and poor at every other aspect of being a RB, including ball security. I'm hoping Giddens can be a better all around RB.

[IndyNorm]

Originally Posted by ChaosTheory

Piqued my interest regarding fumble stats, so I looked it up. Fumble rate is apparently not conveniently aggregated, but I found this list of NFL RB's with 3000+ career rush attempts and how many fumbles they had:

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/low...-3000-attempts

If you do the math:

• Curtis Martin was a freak, fumbling once every 121 attempts.
• Ladainian Tomlinson was next best at once every 102 attempts.
• Jerome Bettis once every 85 attempts
• Frank Gore once every 81 attempts.
• Barry Sanders once every 75 attempts.
• Emmitt Smith once every 72 attempts.
• Edgerrin James once every 69 attempts.
• Adrian Peterson once every 66 attempts.
• Walter Payton and Marcus Allen were worst, fumbling once every 45 and 46 attempts respectively.

If you do the math on JT, he's got 13 total fumbles on 1228 carries. Meaning he fumbles once every 94 attempts, which would be good for third on this list. Even if he gets worse in the latter part of his career, he probably ends up in the range of Sanders, Smith, James, and Peterson at worst.

Just to give an idea.

Thanks Chaos. I was going to actually do something similar w/ RBs from the 2024 season, but this is a better list.

I'm not saying JT is not a net positive, I'm saying he's an elite runner and poor at every other aspect of being a RB, including ball security. I'm hoping Giddens can be a better all around RB.

Not disagreeing with JT being a below average receiver and really bad at pass pro, but as the stats show you're clearly wrong on your ball security take. Unless you believe that the 8 HOFers/Future HOFers on the list Chaos posted also had ball security issues.

Also, as UK pointed out you can cherry pick bad plays by almost any player in NFL history like you're doing w/ JT. Take for example Edge, who we all love for good reason. But he did have some REALLY bad fumbles that cost the Colts big time on multiple occasions. Most notably he lost 2 fumbles in the red zone (one of which was at the goal line) at the Cheats in '04 in a 3 point loss that gave those MFers HFA over us in the playoffs. He also lost a fumble at the goal line in a 3 point loss to Mia his rookie year. I believe he also lost a fumble @NE in OT that year as well which set up their game winning FG.

Happy to disagree, no issue with that. But i do find it odd that you still believe he is a liability regards fumbles when the stats back it up that clearly he isn't.

That's just Dam being Dam. He was of the opinion that JT would have fumbling issues after we drafted him, and he'll take that opinion to the grave whether he's wrong about it or not like every one of his takes.

[Dam8610]

Originally Posted by IndyNorm

Thanks Chaos. I was going to actually do something similar w/ RBs from the 2024 season, but this is a better list.



Not disagreeing with JT being a below average receiver and really bad at pass pro, but as the stats show you're clearly wrong on your ball security take. Unless you believe that the 8 HOFers/Future HOFers on the list Chaos posted also had ball security issues.

Also, as UK pointed out you can cherry pick bad plays by almost any player in NFL history like you're doing w/ JT. Take for example Edge, who we all love for good reason. But he did have some REALLY bad fumbles that cost the Colts big time on multiple occasions. Most notably he lost 2 fumbles in the red zone (one of which was at the goal line) at the Cheats in '04 in a 3 point loss that gave those MFers HFA over us in the playoffs. He also lost a fumble at the goal line in a 3 point loss to Mia his rookie year. I believe he also lost a fumble @NE in OT that year as well which set up their game winning FG.



That's just Dam being Dam. He was of the opinion that JT would have fumbling issues after we drafted him, and he'll take that opinion to the grave whether he's wrong about it or not like every one of his takes.

JT may not fumble often, but when he does, it costs the team the game or possibly the season.

[AlwaysSunnyinIndy]

Originally Posted by ChaosTheory

Piqued my interest regarding fumble stats, so I looked it up. Fumble rate is apparently not conveniently aggregated, but I found this list of NFL RB's with 3000+ career rush attempts and how many fumbles they had:

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/low...-3000-attempts

If you do the math:

• Curtis Martin was a freak, fumbling once every 121 attempts.
• Ladainian Tomlinson was next best at once every 102 attempts.
• Jerome Bettis once every 85 attempts
• Frank Gore once every 81 attempts.
• Barry Sanders once every 75 attempts.
• Emmitt Smith once every 72 attempts.
• Edgerrin James once every 69 attempts.
• Adrian Peterson once every 66 attempts.
• Walter Payton and Marcus Allen were worst, fumbling once every 45 and 46 attempts respectively.

If you do the math on JT, he's got 13 total fumbles on 1228 carries. Meaning he fumbles once every 94 attempts, which would be good for third on this list. Even if he gets worse in the latter part of his career, he probably ends up in the range of Sanders, Smith, James, and Peterson at worst.

Just to give an idea.

JT was labeled as a fumbler due to his college days.

Over the course of his college career, he had 18 fumbles on 926 carries which is a fumble every 51 attempts.

So if the NFL numbers above are correct, then it appears that his ball security skills have improved quite a bit.

I imagine that Tom Rathman had a big influence on that since he was always preaching to protect the ball.