4th and 8 was my 62-7 moment for the Ballard/Steichen regime.

[albany ed]

Originally Posted by Dam8610

Interesting discussion. I know any GOAT debate is all about opinion, but I feel like how you would answer these two questions should tell you who you think the GOAT is in any sport:

1) You're starting a new franchise and you can pick any player from the history of the sport to start that franchise. Who are you picking?

2) It’s the final drive of the game, your team has the ball but needs a TD to win. Who do you want leading the drive? (This is football specific but can easily be rewritten for any other sport.)

For me, the answer to both of those questions is Peyton Manning.

Alright once more to piss off the peanut gallery.

#1. I choose Peyton Manning

#2
Regular season - Peyton Manning
Playoffs - Tom Brady

[apballin]

Originally Posted by Dam8610

Interesting discussion. I know any GOAT debate is all about opinion, but I feel like how you would answer these two questions should tell you who you think the GOAT is in any sport:

1) You're starting a new franchise and you can pick any player from the history of the sport to start that franchise. Who are you picking?

2) It’s the final drive of the game, your team has the ball but needs a TD to win. Who do you want leading the drive? (This is football specific but can easily be rewritten for any other sport.)

For me, the answer to both of those questions is Peyton Manning.

1. Manning

2. Manning

He demanded the best out of guys he made guys better, did anyone in their right mind have any idea who Julius Thomas was before Manning was throwing him the ball?

[Dam8610]

Originally Posted by albany ed

Alright once more to piss off the peanut gallery.

#1. I choose Peyton Manning

#2
Regular season - Peyton Manning
Playoffs - Tom Brady

Sounds like you have Manning as your GOAT.

[Colts And Orioles]

Originally Posted by Dam8610

1) You're starting a new franchise, and you can pick any player from the history of the sport to start that franchise ...... who are you picking ???

o


Baseball: lllllll Sandy Koufax


Basketball: lt Larry Bird


Larry Bird almost single-handedly took the 2nd-worst team in the NBA (the 1978-79 Boston Celtics) and led them to the best record in the NBA (61-21) in his rookie season in 1979-80 ...... and that was without Kevin McHale and Robert Parish, who were not yet on the team.

When Kevin McHale was drafted out of the University of Minnesota the following season and Robert Parish was acquired in a trade with the Golden State Warriors, the Celtics won the championship ....... in his second season with a team that was the worst in the NBA immediately prior to him getting there.

The Celtics continued to be a 60-plus win team year in and year out for 9 consecutive seasons with Larryt Bird, from his rookie season in 1979-80 through his 9th season in 1987-88 ...... when Bird missed the 1988-89 season with an injury, Kevin McHale and Robert Parish were still their primes ...... but without Larry Bird, they barely squeaked into the playoffs with a 42-40 record and were swept in the first round by the Detroit Piston ...... the very next season when Bird was healthy again, the Celtics went back to being a juggernaut over the next 2 seasons with records of 52-30 in 1989-90 and 56-26 in 1990-91. with a 56-26 record, and the #2 overall seed in the Eastern Conference ...... and that was the end of Larry Bird's prime.

Bill Russell was the starting center for 11 world championship teams ...... but he was always surrounded by numerous Hall-of-Famers ...... if you replaced Russell with an average center they would not have won 11 championships in 13 years, but they would have won at least 5 or 6. And they would have made it to the NBA Finals at least 8 or 9 times.

Michael Jordan, like Larry Bord, came to a very bad Chicago Bulls team when Jordan was a rookie ...... but unlike Larry Bord, who singlehandedly turned his terrible team into a great team with the best record in the N BA (61-21), Jordan's Bulls teams were mediocre for 3 straight seasons ...... they went 38-44 in Jordan's rookie season, they went 30-52 in his end season (although Jordan missed a large portion of that season with a broken foot, and they went 40-42 in Jordan's 3rd season. And all 3 seasons, they lost in the first round of the playoffs to the Milwaukee Bucks, and twice to the Boston Celtics.

Finally, in Jordan's 4th season in the league, the Bulls drafted a future Hall-of-Famer in Scottie Pippen. The Bulls went 50-32, and finally won a playoff series ...... not a championship.....a playoff series.

In Jordan's 5th and 6th season they continues to thrive, but he and Scottie Pippen lost to the Detroit Pistons in the Eatern Conference playoffs for 3 straight seasons.

The Bulls won 3 consecutive championships in 1991, 1992, and 1993, with Jordan and Pippen leading the way as their 1-2 punch.

When Jordan first retired, the Bulls continued to thrive in his very first year that the team played without him ...... unlike Larry Bird'a Celtics, who wilted into a mediocre team when he missed the 1988-89 season with a back injury.) ...... not only did they have an excellent 55-27 record without him, but they won their first playoff series and were robbed of advancing at least to the Eastern Conference Finals by referee Hue Hollins (see the Hue Hollins Classic.)


https://www.espn.com/nba/playoffs/20...Hollins-090529


The Bulls might have made it to the NBA Finals or even won it all if not for Hue Hollins ...... without Michael Jordan.



******************************************



Another argument can be made for Wilt Chamberlain ...... Chamberlain was so dominant that they changed the rules of the game to stop him ...... not only did the NBA not change the rules to stop Jordan's dominance, but they went out of their way to enhance Jordan's game and protect him when he was in his prime.


Wilt Chamberlain rule changes, enacted to stop his dominance


1)l The Old Rule: ll Players used to take a running start from behind the key, leap from past the foul line, and dunk the ball during a free-throw attempt.

lll.tt The Rule Change: ll Regulators updated the rule so a shooter's feet must stay behind the free-throw line until the ball hits the rim.


2)l Widening the Lane: ll The key expanded from 12 feet to 16 feet to keep him further from the basket.


3)l Offensive Goaltending: ll The league banned touching the ball directly over the rim cylinder.


4)l Inbounding: ll Passing the ball over the backboard from out of bounds was outlawed.


5)l Dunking a Free Throw: ll Because Wilt Chamberlain used to literally be able to dunk his free throws by leaping from behind the free-throw line (without a running start) when he was playing for the University of Kansas, both the NBA and the NCAA outlawed the practice of during your own free throw ...... before Wilt Chamberlain, it never occurred to anybody that this was even possible.



******************************************



(THE ARGUMENT FOR MICHAEL JORDAN BEING THE GREATEST PLAYER EVER)


An argument can be made for Michael Jordan as the greatest basketball player ever ...... and an argument can be made for Bill Russell being the greatest basketball player ever, also.

But being the my post is already long enough, I will simply end my essay and allow those arguments to be made by those who believe them to be true, as those arguments have been made numerous times throughout modern sports history.

o

[Oldcolt]

If you replaced Russel the Celtics wouldn’t have had all those hall of famers. Russell was in 22 series deciding games in his career (college, Olympics and pros). He was 22-0. Never lost. Not once. Most prolific winner ever in team sports

[Colts And Orioles]

Originally Posted by Oldcolt

If you replaced Russel the Celtics wouldn’t have had all those hall of famers. Russell was in 22 series deciding games in his career (college, Olympics and pros). He was 22-0. Never lost. Not once. Most prolific winner ever in team sports.

o


Bob Cousy, John Havlicek, Bill Sharman, Tom Heinsohn, Bailey Howell, Sam Jones all would have been slam-dunk Hall-of-Famers, with or without Bill Russell ...... they were not inducted into the Hall-of-Fame primarily for their playoff record, they were inducted primarily for their play on the court ...... just as Elgin Baylor, Pete Maravich, Jerry West, Charles Barkley, John Stockton, and Karl Malone were.

KC Jones probably would not be in the Hall-of-Fame had he not played with Bill Russell.



***************************



An argument for Bill Russell being the greatest player ever is that he was the one constant on all of those Boston Celtics championship teams that he played for between the 1956-57 and 1968-69 seasons.

The Celtics' backcourt of Bob Cousy and Bill Sharman in the early portion of Bill Russell's career were replaced by Sam Jones and K.C. Jones in the latter portion.

The Celtics' frontcourt of Tom Heinsohn and Jim Loscutoff in the early portion of Bill Russell's career were replaced by and John Havlicek and Tom "Satch" Sanders in the latter portion.


The star guards and the star forwards came and went ...... but Bill Russell was there the entire time, finding ways to win championships with whomever he was playing with.

o

[albany ed]

Originally Posted by Dam8610

Sounds like you have Manning as your GOAT.

For the regular season, yes. Brady may be who I feel is the GOAT for the playoffs but, personally I don't like the man.