OFFICIAL GAME THREAD: Win the Game, Make the Playoffs (vs. TEXANS, 1/06)

[Dam8610]

Originally Posted by Hoopsdoc

What I heard is that the Bears wanted a number 1 receiver to pair with Fields and they preferred Moore because they felt he was a better player than Pittman and he was also signed long term.

If that is true, then the Colts had no shot at trading to 1.

The #4 pick was more valuable than #9 in part because it could've been flipped again to another QB needy team to get into that same range. In this hypothetical scenario, after trading with the Colts to move to 4, if the Bears liked DJ Moore so much, they could've flipped from 4 to 9 and got him. You can say it was impossible, if they wanted it badly enough, they'd have found a way to make it happen.

Originally Posted by Racehorse

There you go harping again

That's not "harping", that's frustration. Ballard talked the talk then did not walk the walk. Could've won the division for the first time since 2014, instead the Colts have an injured QB and a lot of "what if"s.

[IndyNorm]

Originally Posted by Dam8610

The #4 pick was more valuable than #9 in part because it could've been flipped again to another QB needy team to get into that same range. In this hypothetical scenario, after trading with the Colts to move to 4, if the Bears liked DJ Moore so much, they could've flipped from 4 to 9 and got him. You can say it was impossible, if they wanted it badly enough, they'd have found a way to make it happen.

That's not "harping", that's frustration. Ballard talked the talk then did not walk the walk. Could've won the division for the first time since 2014, instead the Colts have an injured QB and a lot of "what if"s.

You're assuming that Ballard had Stroud rated higher than AR. Considering how Ballard tends to value traits over polish and production in his draft picks it's not unlikely that he had AR rated higher than Stroud. At the very least he obviously had AR rated close enough to Stroud to where he didn't think it was worth spending the capital to trade up to #1.

Absolutely not. If Richardson comes out next year, stays healthy, and leads the Colts to a high seeded playoff berth, I'll wholeheartedly believe in him. The problem I have is there was a franchise QB available and the Colts didn't move heaven and earth to get him, like they said they would. I am right about Stroud (my comp was Rodgers, he led the league in TD:INT ratio as a rookie), and while I'll probably be annoyed about that until he's out of the league, there's no need to harp on it. Hopefully Houston will botch it with him like they did with their last franchise QB.

We all know this is BS. If Stroud ends up having the better career of the 2 then you'll continue to remind us about it every step of the way. If AR manages to live up to his potential and ends up being better than Stroud then you'll come up w/ some BS as to why that happened, similar to what you do when anyone on here brings up how bad Mac Jones and Zach Wilson are.

Probably Young, which would've been incredible for the Colts

I distinctly remember you being high on Young. Not as high as you were on Stroud obviously, but still high on him. Are you admitting that you were wrong?

[Dam8610]

Originally Posted by IndyNorm

You're assuming that Ballard had Stroud rated higher than AR. Considering how Ballard tends to value traits over polish and production in his draft picks it's not unlikely that he had AR rated higher than Stroud. At the very least he obviously had AR rated close enough to Stroud to where he didn't think it was worth spending the capital to trade up to #1.

You have pinpointed what I am frustrated about. Based on results, Stroud should've been rated head and shoulders above the rest of the class, as I had it. He led the league in TD:INT ratio AS A ROOKIE and game in and game out displayed the Aaron Rodgers like qualities (including leading the league in TD:INT ratio) that he displayed at Ohio State all year, not just in the Georgia game. His rookie year is proof that that assessment was wrong.

Originally Posted by IndyNorm

We all know this is BS. If Stroud ends up having the better career of the 2 then you'll continue to remind us about it every step of the way. If AR manages to live up to his potential and ends up being better than Stroud then you'll come up w/ some BS as to why that happened, similar to what you do when anyone on here brings up how bad Mac Jones and Zach Wilson are.

I'm a Colts fan, the Colts winning is ultimately what I want. Stroud is clearly going to be a franchise QB barring injury. If Richardson lives up to his potential and is also a franchise QB, it'll completely remove the sting of missing a different franchise QB.

As for the 2021 QB class, it looks like they were all bad. At least I can point at team based factors that ruined the development of Jones and Wilson. It's not like they're Trevor Lawrence who still can't read a defense.

Originally Posted by IndyNorm

I distinctly remember you being high on Young. Not as high as you were on Stroud obviously, but still high on him. Are you admitting that you were wrong?

If Young had 4 more inches of height, I'd've ultimately ranked Stroud higher. Why? Because they were very close in terms of performance, but there was one differentiating trait that made Stroud better in my eyes. Both QBs often rolled out of the pocket and improvised. When Young did it, he looked to run more often and didn't always keep his eyes downfield. Stroud ALWAYS kept his eyes downfield and often made opposing defenses pay for not maintaining zone discipline when he rolled out. That's why my high end comp for Stroud was Rodgers and my high end comp for Young was prime Russell Wilson. I'd choose Rodgers over Wilson.

That said, Young absolutely had a terrible rookie season on the worst roster in the league. I wouldn't write him off just yet. Both he and Richardson have a chance to completely change the narrative next year. I wouldn't count either of them out at this point.

[IndyNorm]

You have pinpointed what I am frustrated about. Based on results, Stroud should've been rated head and shoulders above the rest of the class, as I had it. He led the league in TD:INT ratio AS A ROOKIE and game in and game out displayed the Aaron Rodgers like qualities (including leading the league in TD:INT ratio) that he displayed at Ohio State all year, not just in the Georgia game. His rookie year is proof that that assessment was wrong.

I'm a Colts fan, the Colts winning is ultimately what I want. Stroud is clearly going to be a franchise QB barring injury. If Richardson lives up to his potential and is also a franchise QB, it'll completely remove the sting of missing a different franchise QB.

There you go with your hindsight harping again.

As for the 2021 QB class, it looks like they were all bad. At least I can point at team based factors that ruined the development of Jones and Wilson. It's not like they're Trevor Lawrence who still can't read a defense.

See, you still can't admit that you were wrong about Wilson and Jones (neither of which can read a defense to save their lives either). Just admit that you were wrong. It'll be healthy for you, and people on the board will respect you more.

Also, who said anything about Lawrence? I don't know if it's b/c he banged your mom or something, but the dude has been living rent free in your head for the past 3 years now. Whatever it is that's causing this you should let it go.

If Young had 4 more inches of height, I'd've ultimately ranked Stroud higher. Why? Because they were very close in terms of performance, but there was one differentiating trait that made Stroud better in my eyes. Both QBs often rolled out of the pocket and improvised. When Young did it, he looked to run more often and didn't always keep his eyes downfield. Stroud ALWAYS kept his eyes downfield and often made opposing defenses pay for not maintaining zone discipline when he rolled out. That's why my high end comp for Stroud was Rodgers and my high end comp for Young was prime Russell Wilson. I'd choose Rodgers over Wilson.

I wasn't trying to compare Stroud and Young. Stroud is clearly better, and few (if any) of us thought differently going into the draft. What I was trying to convey is that you were high on Young, and at least as of now he looks like an epic bust.

That said, Young absolutely had a terrible rookie season on the worst roster in the league. I wouldn't write him off just yet. Both he and Richardson have a chance to completely change the narrative next year. I wouldn't count either of them out at this point.

Agree that you can't give up on Young even though he was god awful this year, but clearly the signs are there that he's a possibly bust.

Not sure the narrative needs to be flipped on AR. Dude got hurt. It happens in the NFL. But what we saw when he played was VERY promising. Although you seem to want the Colts to give up on him since you've been bringing up that we should draft Jayden Daniels.

[Dam8610]

Originally Posted by IndyNorm

There you go with your hindsight harping again.

I'll take that as a concession that there's no argument to be had there.

Originally Posted by IndyNorm

See, you still can't admit that you were wrong about Wilson and Jones (neither of which can read a defense to save their lives either). Just admit that you were wrong. It'll be healthy for you, and people on the board will respect you more.

The entire 2021 QB class appears to be a bust. Given that Mac Jones was a Ja'Marr Chase 3 TD performance against the Chiefs away from the OROY, I think his failure probably had more to do with his team screwing up his development than the guy who couldn't read defenses coming in and still can't. As for Wilson, I said at the time he needed a redshirt year and that starting him immediately risked ruining his development, but the Jets are gonna Jets.

Originally Posted by IndyNorm

Also, who said anything about Lawrence? I don't know if it's b/c he banged your mom or something, but the dude has been living rent free in your head for the past 3 years now. Whatever it is that's causing this you should let it go.

I imagine that most draft experts and the football watching population in general are feeling toward Lawrence the way Obi-Wan felt toward Anakin on Mustafar. "You were the Chosen One!" That was certainly the way he was talked about in the leadup to the draft. He wasn't then and still isn't.

Originally Posted by IndyNorm

I wasn't trying to compare Stroud and Young. Stroud is clearly better, and few (if any) of us thought differently going into the draft. What I was trying to convey is that you were high on Young, and at least as of now he looks like an epic bust.

You need to go back and read, then. I was the only one on this board that had Stroud above Young, and most draft experts had Young ahead as well. The biggest criticism of Stroud was that he couldn't improvise (lol) and that was what put Young ahead of him for most people. Lots of people had Young and Stroud on the same tier, with Young ahead of Stroud. I eventually had each of the top 3 QBs in their own tier, with Stroud being the highest, and Levis in the "not a starter" tier with several other QBs.

Originally Posted by IndyNorm

Agree that you can't give up on Young even though he was god awful this year, but clearly the signs are there that he's a possibly bust.

Sure, I said at the time that his height was a significant risk factor that he could potentially fail in the NFL. The risk factors of a player aren't listed for fun, it's typically a "if he fails, here's why" list. Because it's not an exact science, and even the best GMs get it wrong 50% of the time.

Originally Posted by IndyNorm

Not sure the narrative needs to be flipped on AR. Dude got hurt. It happens in the NFL. But what we saw when he played was VERY promising. Although you seem to want the Colts to give up on him since you've been bringing up that we should draft Jayden Daniels.

The narrative on AR currently is he shows a lot of promise, but can't stay healthy enough to even finish a game, and had his season ended after 5 of 17. Hopefully he can change that to "he fulfilled the promise he showed and finished all 17 games" next season. I don't necessarily want the Colts to give up on Richardson, but I wouldn't pass on Joe Burrow just because I already had Teddy Bridgewater. I'm not saying Daniels is Burrow or Richardson is Bridgewater, I just wouldn't pass on drafting a franchise QB if one was presented to me unless I already knew I had a franchise QB.

[Racehorse]

Originally Posted by Dam8610

You need to go back and read, then. I was the only one on this board that had Stroud above Young, and most draft experts had Young ahead as well. The biggest criticism of Stroud was that he couldn't improvise (lol) and that was what put Young ahead of him for most people. Lots of people had Young and Stroud on the same tier, with Young ahead of Stroud. I eventually had each of the top 3 QBs in their own tier, with Stroud being the highest, and Levis in the "not a starter" tier with several other QBs.

One of the main reasons Stroud was rated lower was his cognitive score was rumored to be equal to a small rock. We now Know that he actually can process better than they predicted.

[Dam8610]

Originally Posted by Racehorse

One of the main reasons Stroud was rated lower was his cognitive score was rumored to be equal to a small rock. We now Know that he actually can process better than they predicted.

I also said at the time that that result didn't match up with the film. If you watched the film, you knew he could process well.

[IndyNorm]

I'll take that as a concession that there's no argument to be had there.

You were just harping, so I didn't feel like it needed much of a response. But since you insist: it's stupid to say that Ballard was wrong on his evaluation after 1 season. With a raw talent like AR you need to give him 2-3 years to develop before making an accurate comparison. Also, when the proper time comes you just can't compare Stroud vs. AR. You need to compare Stroud vs. AR, Brents, Ade, at least our 2nd round pick from '24 (if not our first), and possibly someone like ~MPJ.

The entire 2021 QB class appears to be a bust. Given that Mac Jones was a Ja'Marr Chase 3 TD performance against the Chiefs away from the OROY, I think his failure probably had more to do with his team screwing up his development than the guy who couldn't read defenses coming in and still can't. As for Wilson, I said at the time he needed a redshirt year and that starting him immediately risked ruining his development, but the Jets are gonna Jets.

LOL seriously? If the Jets had listened to you then Wilson would have turned out ok? Do you really not know how ridiculous these type of comments are?

As for Mac Jones - granted I didn't watch the Cheats much this year, but he sure as shit didn't know how to read a defense when they played us. Also, it wasn't just Chase's late year push that factored into Jones not winning OROY. Jones sucked down the stretch his rookie year, which very much foreshadowed things to come.

Just be a man instead of a little cunt (as well stated by omaha) and admit that you were wrong. It's not that hard. Let me give you an example: I at one point agreed with you that the Colts should have traded up to draft Mac Jones instead of drafting Paye. I was clearly wrong about that.

I imagine that most draft experts and the football watching population in general are feeling toward Lawrence the way Obi-Wan felt toward Anakin on Mustafar. "You were the Chosen One!" That was certainly the way he was talked about in the leadup to the draft. He wasn't then and still isn't.

Those draft "experts" get paid to make statements like that. You don't. As far as general fans go I don't think anyone outside of Jagoffs and Clemson fans are too upset that Lawrence regressed this year and might not pan out.

Like I said before: you need to quit letting him live inside your head rent free.

You need to go back and read, then. I was the only one on this board that had Stroud above Young, and most draft experts had Young ahead as well. The biggest criticism of Stroud was that he couldn't improvise (lol) and that was what put Young ahead of him for most people. Lots of people had Young and Stroud on the same tier, with Young ahead of Stroud. I eventually had each of the top 3 QBs in their own tier, with Stroud being the highest, and Levis in the "not a starter" tier with several other QBs.

This is total BS. There are plenty of us on here (myself included) who stated that we didn't want the Colts to draft Young b/c of his size.

Sure, I said at the time that his height was a significant risk factor that he could potentially fail in the NFL. The risk factors of a player aren't listed for fun, it's typically a "if he fails, here's why" list. Because it's not an exact science, and even the best GMs get it wrong 50% of the time.

You may have stated his size was a risk factor, but you were still high on him.

The narrative on AR currently is he shows a lot of promise, but can't stay healthy enough to even finish a game, and had his season ended after 5 of 17. Hopefully he can change that to "he fulfilled the promise he showed and finished all 17 games" next season. I don't necessarily want the Colts to give up on Richardson, but I wouldn't pass on Joe Burrow just because I already had Teddy Bridgewater. I'm not saying Daniels is Burrow or Richardson is Bridgewater, I just wouldn't pass on drafting a franchise QB if one was presented to me unless I already knew I had a franchise QB.

That's your narrative. Most of us on here are pretty optimistic now with AR's shoulder being repaired and hopefully some focus on him avoiding big hits where possible that he'll stay healthy.

Also, if the Colts do indeed draft another QB in the 1st round this year it means they have given up on AR. It's not that hard to figure out. We all know that they won't do this though, so there's really no point in speculating on it.