so Donald Trump

[Lov2fish]

Originally Posted by GoBigBlue88

I'm sorry, but comparing Clinton's faults to Trump's faults feels incredibly weak to me.

One would be a President you disagreed with but could live with keeping the executive branch alive until you can vote for a better candidate 4 years later.

The other already has the executive branch in shambles, is embarrassing the country on an international stage and is making a mockery of the office.

Any other year, I'd agree with the right to think "each is an idiot". I honestly just can't fathom how anyone could not see Trump as by far the greater evil here, though.

And I think it's dangerous to just sit this out, too, because that just further empowers Trump in this climate. I trust in the Constitution to hold strong and enough checks and balances in place -- between the public and judiciary/legislative branches -- for this to not end in apocalypse, hard as Trump is trying to fumble the nuclear football right now. But I do think we're fighting for the intelligence, reputation and truth-literacy of America moving forward, if nothing else, and valuing the truth has to matter at some point.

EDIT: I got sidetracked here a bit but keeping this so as not to revise. I don't think the point anymore is Clinton v Trump or WE WON YOU LOST! I think the point is that Donald Trump is President and doing some scary shit. And we should be honest about what that is, why it's happening, talk about it, see why it does happen (what it REALLY addresses) and what can be done to make this a better country moving forward.

Of course, if you're blindly for a Muslim ban without thinking beyond that, I cannot help you.

That's just your partisan shining through. They both sucked. No, Hillary was not better than Trump and you can not perpetuate enough bull shit to even make that somewhat plausible. That cunt had as much or more baggage than that dufus had. They are both embarrassments to their respective party. With Trump being so unqualified, yet other than liberal Utopia Komifornia the country voted for him anyway. They did so out of frustration from failed policy the previous 8 years. Hell who we kidding, the last 3/4 of a century.

I voted for Trump. I had one reason and one reason only. Scotus. He didn't disappoint with his selection either. I hope the other ole hag retires this year, too. One more appointee and the SC will be set for damn near an entire generation. Everybody screams and shouts about both the idiots, like they are really anything other than figure heads. It's laughable really. Mattis was a good decision in his cabinet. So far he has pretty much been the only bright spot of Trumps pick sans the Scotus pick.

Now I set back and wait for the eventual collapse of this albatross. It's not even an if, it's when.

[Brylok]

At the current rate, this country is doomed. I'm glad I'm middle aged and have no children.

[Colts2006]

When I went into the voting booth....I almost voted for Johnson just because of the two top choices being so piss poor. But I ended up voting for Trump due to the SCOTUS. Hillary was a complete joke of a candidate. Its amazing that a major political party actually put her up for President. Trump isn't much better of a choice but the SCOTUS hanging in the balance forced me to vote for him.

[omahacolt]

Originally Posted by Colts2006

When I went into the voting booth....I almost voted for Johnson just because of the two top choices being so piss poor. But I ended up voting for Trump due to the SCOTUS. Hillary was a complete joke of a candidate. Its amazing that a major political party actually put her up for President. Trump isn't much better of a choice but the SCOTUS hanging in the balance forced me to vote for him.

Trump was a much worse choice. Not sure how anyone can say otherwise.

i am sure Clinton would have picked a fine scotus nominee. Trump is an embarrassment to this country on a world wide level. He is a puppet for Putin.

[Spike]

Originally Posted by omahacolt

Trump was a much worse choice. Not sure how anyone can say otherwise.

i am sure Clinton would have picked a fine scotus nominee. Trump is an embarrassment to this country on a world wide level. He is a puppet for Putin.

Democrats screwed the pooch. Their arrogance that Hillary could win destroyed them. A lot of people just didn't trust Hillary. Her lies, her Clinton Foundation, her email scandal, Benghazi, just to name a few. I don't know how Trump is going to turn out, but it was an election where I didn't feel good voting for either one of them. Trump is a blowhard and says the stupidest shit sometimes. I do like that Trump wants to deport all the illegal aliens that are criminals. I do like that he wants to protect our boarders. I do like that he wants to repeal Obamacare, which has been a disaster. I guess time will tell whether Trump is worth a shit or not. But, this I truly believe, Hillary would have been a disaster.

[omahacolt]

Originally Posted by Spike

Democrats screwed the pooch. Their arrogance that Hillary could win destroyed them. A lot of people just didn't trust Hillary. Her lies, her Clinton Foundation, her email scandal, Benghazi, just to name a few. I don't know how Trump is going to turn out, but it was an election where I didn't feel good voting for either one of them. Trump is a blowhard and says the stupidest shit sometimes. I do like that Trump wants to deport all the illegal aliens that are criminals. I do like that he wants to protect our boarders. I do like that he wants to repeal Obamacare, which has been a disaster. I guess time will tell whether Trump is worth a shit or not. But, this I truly believe, Hillary would have been a disaster.

i am no hillary fan. but to say that she would be worse than trump is laughable at best. more like retarded.

trump has made this country a laughingstock. the dude is a god damn moron. he has no idea what he is doing.

protect our borders is fine. i have been an advocate of that for years. but by building a wall? are you kidding me? it is illogical and expensive. mexico will not be paying for it.

fix obamacare. don't repeal it. which won't happen because trump is all about big business. big pharma will make out even better. our health care system is destroying the middle class. insurance is too expensive and prescription drugs have to get regulated.

hillary would have been, at the very least, stable. trump is a moron that has a mental disability

[Spike]

Originally Posted by omahacolt

i am no hillary fan. but to say that she would be worse than trump is laughable at best. more like retarded.

trump has made this country a laughingstock. the dude is a god damn moron. he has no idea what he is doing.

protect our borders is fine. i have been an advocate of that for years. but by building a wall? are you kidding me? it is illogical and expensive. mexico will not be paying for it.

fix obamacare. don't repeal it. which won't happen because trump is all about big business. big pharma will make out even better. our health care system is destroying the middle class. insurance is too expensive and prescription drugs have to get regulated.

hillary would have been, at the very least, stable. trump is a moron that has a mental disability

Hillary and stable should never be put in the same sentence. Trump may have a mental disability, but so does Hillary. Again, not a real fan of either one of them.

[Spike]

Originally Posted by omahacolt

i am no hillary fan. but to say that she would be worse than trump is laughable at best. more like retarded.

trump has made this country a laughingstock. the dude is a god damn moron. he has no idea what he is doing.

protect our borders is fine. i have been an advocate of that for years. but by building a wall? are you kidding me? it is illogical and expensive. mexico will not be paying for it.

fix obamacare. don't repeal it. which won't happen because trump is all about big business. big pharma will make out even better. our health care system is destroying the middle class. insurance is too expensive and prescription drugs have to get regulated.

hillary would have been, at the very least, stable. trump is a moron that has a mental disability

Is half of America retarded? People didn't want that bitch in office and for someone like Trump to beat her tells you all you need to know about Hillary.

[GoBigBlue88]

Originally Posted by Spike

A lot of people just didn't trust Hillary.

Thank God they trust Trump, though. That's working out well. He's proving to be the bastion of honesty so far.

Originally Posted by Spike

Her lies, her Clinton Foundation, her email scandal, Benghazi, just to name a few.

Trump still uses an unsecured, consumer-grade (!) Android phone, and refuses to get rid of it despite everyone around him pleading to do so. Somehow, it seems like the least problematic thing about him. Guess we can also throw in his lies about donating to military charities, his bizarre lies about his margin of victory in the election (that interaction with ABC News this week was particularly embarrassing), his refusal to show his tax returns ...

... oh, and the many dances with Russia the Trump team has had and been caught bold-faced lying about.

But, yup. Emails. Totes the problem.

Originally Posted by Spike

Trump is a blowhard and says the stupidest shit sometimes.

Here's the issue though: when does stupid become dangerous? It seemed like a novelty act, a performance, during his campaign. If anything, the hubris, deceit and self-masturbation has multiplied exponentially since then.

To me, it's not just "stupid shit" when Trump goes on his fake news crusade. It's Trump trying to tell you to listen to him, and only him. And while I maintain that the Constitution and balance of power checks are too strong to ever let him truly become one ... that's how you start down the road of claiming dictator status. Which isn't just stupid shit anymore, but shit that threatens the lives, well-being and security of others.

Originally Posted by Spike

I do like that Trump wants to deport all the illegal aliens that are criminals.

But was that ever really in dispute? It's not as if Obama had offered safe harbor for illegal criminals. He, too, was deporting those. Trump is broadening his sweep. To be fair, it sounds like his stance is softening; apparently, the WH is now in favor of allowing children to remain.

I just don't see how Trump is proposing anything Obama wasn't doing. He's just aiming to show bigger force, instill more fear and look more active in fulfilling a nonsensical campaign promise.

Originally Posted by Spike

I do like that he wants to protect our boarders.

In no realistic way. Mexico ain't footing that bill. The wall thing is already a mess. If we're talking travel plan, then in no realistic, legal or effective way. If you're going to propose the travel ban he did, then logic would dictate, from past attacks, you start with Saudi Arabia. Not even on the table. I don't think Saudis should be banned from entering America myself, but if you really believe in a travel ban, you can't believe Trump is effectively installing one with our land or air borders...

Originally Posted by Spike

I do like that he wants to repeal Obamacare, which has been a disaster.

But what's his replacement plan? You can't just repeal. You have to replace. A lot of people who voted for Trump are finding they're screwed while they wait for answers here. He made a big show of fighting to repeal Obamacare; which is whatever, the dysfunction of Congress is what neutered a sensible proposal there to an amorphous mess in the first place. But the solutions are lacking.

Originally Posted by Spike

I guess time will tell whether Trump is worth a shit or not.

Is the verdict really out at this point?


I guess I'll just never get the defense or justification of Trump. Look, I get it. Politics are personal and complicated. I don't ever aim to shit on anyone's party affiliation. That's dumb, and that's how we end up in so many messes.

But Trump transcends party identification. He's a dangerous, foolish man who represents the absolute worst of America, compromises our security and reputation, and is on pace to set this country back in so many ways. That's not a Republican thing. That's a Trump thing.

And my non-partisan side rant here: will we ever get a candidate who fixes the fucking infrastructure of this country? I mean, damn. Hillary wasn't about doing that. Trump is too obsessed with his dumb campaign promises (which didn't include that) to do it. Meanwhile, dams are nearly collapsing, bridges are failing, so much of the concrete build of America is entirely neglected. But we'd much rather wave flags to go after ISIS or build walls or any other number of non-priority things than turn our attention to our own goddamn crumbling infrastructure.

[Spike]

Originally Posted by GoBigBlue88

And my non-partisan side rant here: will we ever get a candidate who fixes the fucking infrastructure of this country? I mean, damn. Hillary wasn't about doing that. Trump is too obsessed with his dumb campaign promises (which didn't include that) to do it. Meanwhile, dams are nearly collapsing, bridges are failing, so much of the concrete build of America is entirely neglected. But we'd much rather wave flags to go after ISIS or build walls or any other number of non-priority things than turn our attention to our own goddamn crumbling infrastructure.

Apparently Obama did try and it looks like Trump will try.

Republican fiscal hawks in Congress shot down an economic stimulus program built on infrastructure work when Obama was the person proposing it, and Trump faces similar resistance.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-quicktake-q-a