Denver caught their rainbow

[ChaosTheory]

Originally Posted by rm1369

Yep, and they consistently underperformed in the playoffs. I'm curious as to your explanation as to why that was the case.

I don't like to look at results and try to generalize. Patriots dynasty in '03 and '04. Steelers had a great D in '05, maybe Dungy and Harper distractions had an effect? '06 we won but we didn't have to go play the Chargers who for some reason were probably our worst match-up in the league. '07 and '08 the bracket gods put us up against those Chargers.

Lot of what-ifs, but I don't see losses due to Polian putting together a sub-par team.

Originally Posted by rm1369

The difference? How close they got to achieving the goal. I'm not sure why that's a question...

...But the overall point is that I'd have happily watched a couple 9-7 seasons (probably the very floor with Manning) to move extra resources into the D or OL for a few seasons. Does it guarantee a SB win? Of course not, but it sure would help the chances.

It's a question because none of them won the SB. You're talking about "sacrificing" seasons for the SB. Well, say you do whatever that means and have a couple bad seasons...

What kind of team do you envision fielding after this hypothetical sacrifice? Would it not be a team that goes 12-4, 13-3, 14-2, wins the division, and seeds high for the playoffs for a chance at a Super Bowl? Because that's exactly what we had in the 2000's under Polian. What else do you want a GM to provide if that's not enough?

Originally Posted by rm1369

For the record, why do you think Manning accumulated the same SB record in 4 post-prime years in Denver as he did in 13 prime years in Indy? If it didn't have anything to do with the rest of the team, what was it? Simply luck?

Nothing to do with the rest of the team? I don't follow. Look at DEN from 2012-2015 and IND from 2006-2009. Four seasons, 2 SB appearances, 1 SB win, and 2 one-and-done playoff appearances.

As I remember it, DEN was good collecting young talent. They were meddling for many years because they were missing a QB. There was also an offensive boom and other changes in 2011 that opened up passing and allowed younger guys to hit the ground running faster than before. Manning returns in 2012 and takes advantage of the 2011 effect and has a good D on the other side and they have a great 4-year run.

Difference is DEN was meddling before and bad after. The Colts had at least three Super Bowl contending teams plus two more 10-win division champs surrounding their similar run.

[rm1369]

Originally Posted by ChaosTheory

I don't like to look at results and try to generalize. Patriots dynasty in '03 and '04. Steelers had a great D in '05, maybe Dungy and Harper distractions had an effect? '06 we won but we didn't have to go play the Chargers who for some reason were probably our worst match-up in the league. '07 and '08 the bracket gods put us up against those Chargers.

Lot of what-ifs, but I don't see losses due to Polian putting together a sub-par team.



It's a question because none of them won the SB. You're talking about "sacrificing" seasons for the SB. Well, say you do whatever that means and have a couple bad seasons...

What kind of team do you envision fielding after this hypothetical sacrifice? Would it not be a team that goes 12-4, 13-3, 14-2, wins the division, and seeds high for the playoffs for a chance at a Super Bowl? Because that's exactly what we had in the 2000's under Polian. What else do you want a GM to provide if that's not enough?




Nothing to do with the rest of the team? I don't follow. Look at DEN from 2012-2015 and IND from 2006-2009. Four seasons, 2 SB appearances, 1 SB win, and 2 one-and-done playoff appearances.

As I remember it, DEN was good collecting young talent. They were meddling for many years because they were missing a QB. There was also an offensive boom and other changes in 2011 that opened up passing and allowed younger guys to hit the ground running faster than before. Manning returns in 2012 and takes advantage of the 2011 effect and has a good D on the other side and they have a great 4-year run.

Difference is DEN was meddling before and bad after. The Colts had at least three Super Bowl contending teams plus two more 10-win division champs surrounding their similar run.

Man I’m sorry, we can’t even agree on simple ideas. The discussion is pointless.

[ChaosTheory]

Originally Posted by rm1369

Man I’m sorry, we can’t even agree on simple ideas. The discussion is pointless.

Hey, I'm just trying to help you out, brother. It's got to be a miserable time as a fan when a 14-2 team isn't good enough.

[rm1369]

Originally Posted by ChaosTheory

Hey, I'm just trying to help you out, brother. It's got to be a miserable time as a fan when a 14-2 team isn't good enough.

Thanks man! I do wish that after the ‘05 Steelers loss I was as enlightened as you and was able to laugh, shrug and say “we were still 14-2, baby! Can’t change that!”.

Honestly if I really think about it, this past season was also a success. I mean some of those guys really, tried tried hard! Now I know they fell short of expectations, but even when they were getting embarrassed on national tv they didn’t hide! They stayed right there on that field and kept taking their ass kicking. I think that’s something to be proud of!

Shit man you are right. Not giving a fuck makes being a fan so much easier!

[ChaosTheory]

Originally Posted by rm1369

Thanks man! I do wish that after the ‘05 Steelers loss I was as enlightened as you and was able to laugh, shrug and say “we were still 14-2, baby! Can’t change that!”.

Honestly if I really think about it, this past season was also a success. I mean some of those guys really, tried tried hard! Now I know they fell short of expectations, but even when they were getting embarrassed on national tv they didn’t hide! They stayed right there on that field and kept taking their ass kicking. I think that’s something to be proud of!

Shit man you are right. Not giving a fuck makes being a fan so much easier!

Don't get salty, it was a quick jab. Look at the extremes you just took it. What are you doing? You just invented all of that because I poked at you.

Look, I'll say this and leave you alone. Polian's job was to field a team that is capable of winning the Super Bowl. Which he did, year after year for a decade. You saying that he should have done more is purely hindsight.

If the Colts turned around in a year or two and went 13-4 and got the #1 seed using that similar Polian-style approach, you wouldn't be on here posting about how Ballard's methods are stupid... that is, until after the season if they do anything except win the Super Bowl.

Then you'll continue telling us that he knows how to "build a team" but he's no good at "team building" or whatever the fuck.

[rm1369]

Originally Posted by ChaosTheory

Don't get salty, it was a quick jab. Look at the extremes you just took it. What are you doing? You just invented all of that because I poked at you.

Look, I'll say this and leave you alone. Polian's job was to field a team that is capable of winning the Super Bowl. Which he did, year after year for a decade. You saying that he should have done more is purely hindsight.

If the Colts turned around in a year or two and went 13-4 and got the #1 seed using that similar Polian-style approach, you wouldn't be on here posting about how Ballard's methods are stupid... that is, until after the season if they do anything except win the Super Bowl.

Then you'll continue telling us that he knows how to "build a team" but he's no good at "team building" or whatever the fuck.

BS it was hindsight - I criticized Polians methods then. And there were others that did at the time. I’m sure you told them how nuts and miserable they were and now say it’s all hindsight. Just like has occurred with Ballard. I was criticizing his philosophy when Luck was still on the fucking team. Hell I criticize the same philosophy on other teams - the Ted Thompson Packers for example. If you want to debate the merits of the methods great let’s do it. But quit acting like you can’t understand the fucking concept. And definitely quit the standard “it’s all hindsight” BS.

And what I’ve said about Ballard is he’s great at collecting talent and poor at assembling a team. What the fuck in his 7 years as GM do you have to prove me wrong? What he did at LT this year? DE the year before? How about WR with Rivers? Maybe it’s all the premium positions he’s stocked with talent - the known winning positions of LG, off ball LB, and RB.

[ChaosTheory]

Originally Posted by rm1369

BS it was hindsight - I criticized Polians methods then. And there were others that did at the time.

Ok. Like those times when we're sitting at 7-0, 9-0, 13-0, 14-0... you're criticizing the GM because he can build a team but can't team-build. Not waiting until you see what happens in the playoffs. By all means, keep at it.