o


It's a hobby.


Regarding Landis "cleaning up baseball", that is a fallacy that is greatly exaggerated, and I'll explain why ......

Ty Cobb and Tris Speaker were permitted by Commissioner Kenesaw Mountain Landis to resign from their player-manager posts near the end of the 1926 season after former pitcher Dutch Leonard charged that Cobb, Speaker, and Smoky Joe Wood had joined him just before the 1919 World Series in betting on a game they all knew was fixed. Leonard presented letters and other documents to Commissioner Landis and AL President Ban Johnson, and Johnson thought that they would be so potentially damaging to baseball in the wake of the Black Sox scandal that he paid Leonard $20,000 to have them suppressed. Landis, who proposed to have a "zero tolerance policy" when he was hired as the Commissioner of MLB in direct response to the Black Sox scandal, did everything that he could to cover up and gloss over the Ty Cobb/Tris Speaker/Smoky Joe Wood incident for fear that the American public would be completely disillusioned about the authenticity of the game, because it would have been the second major game-fixing scandal in the same time period of time.

So while Landis is in Baseball Hall-of-Fame for allegedly cleaning up baseball, the fact of the matter was that was a racist, bigoted grandstander who gets far more credit than he actually deserves in regard to his overall legacy in the history of professional baseball.

o

I agree with you on the reality of Landis. Baseball was chock full of racist bigots back in the early 20th century (as was the whole damn country). He changed the public perception of baseball which was worth something. Cool hobby by the way.

Interesting info C&O and really cool story about your conversation w/ Gardner Stern. Definitely really nice of him to share his story w/ you. Unfortunately that probably wouldn't happen today due to all of the scam and spam calls everyone gets.

I knew that Buck Weaver didn't take the bribe and played to win, but that he was banned w/ his teammates under the pretense that he knew about the fix and didn't turn them in. Also, I knew that there's a lot of controversy on whether Sholess Joe threw games or not and that he overall played well, but I didn't know he played that well.


Interesting. I'll have to read up on the Ty Cobb and Tris Speaker incident.

And Landis may have been a total asshole and gets too much credit, but I think he definitely deserves at least some credit for saving baseball. At least from my understanding the Black Sox had gotten away w/ the whole thing scott free until Landis stepped in and laid down the hammer. If he (or perhaps someone else) had not done this then the flood gates would have been wide open for fixing games, which IMO would have ended baseball.

Anyway, interesting stuff. I'll definitely do some more reading on this as it's piqued my interest. Also, there's a historical walking tour in downtown Cincy on the 1919 World Series I had forgotten about until our conversation here. I'll have to plan on going on it here in the spring or summer.

o


Landis was not the reason why the Black Sox avoided getting away with the fix. The story went viral/nationwide in late September of 1920. With only 3 games left to be played in the regular season, Charlie Comiskey suspended all 8 players, pending further investigation. Landis was not in the picture at all until well after that ...... in other words, the genie was already out of the bottle, action had already been taken against the 8 accused players, and Landis had nothing to do with it.

The MLB owners, fearing an extremely damaging blow to baseball because of the fix, hired Landis after the fact (after the fix had been exposed, and action had been taken against the 8 accused players) in order to try to give some credibility to the game. After the 8 accused players were exonerated in a court of law in 1921, Landis banned them all from MLB for life.

Landis' inaction and willful ignorance of the Ty Cobb/Tris Speaker fixing incident completely belies the notion that he banned the 8 Black Sox players to preserve the moral integrity of the game ...... it was nothing more than Landis grandstanding after the fact, and he cared not about the integrity of the game, but rather was doing what was expedient at the time.




****************************



In regard to the possibility of baseball not surviving had the 8 accused White Sox players not been banned, it is highly unlikely that baseball would have met its end had they not been banned ...... basketball survived the Tim Donaghy scandal (a referee who was actively fixing games with his officiating because he bet on them) without blinking. Since then, numerous basketball players and coaches have all been indicted for gambling on games that they were playing in and coaching in as well (Terry Rozier, Chauncey Billups, and Damon Jones, etc), and the game is still going strong, and attendance and TV ratings haven't missed a beat ...... Americans love their sports, and gambling, fixing games, and/or other ridiculousness such as the NFL rule changes neutering defenses and vaulting quarterbacks into putting up statistics that resemble a pinball game gone wild won't stop them from coming through the gates by the thousands, and tuning in on their TV sets by the millions.

o

C&O You obviously know so much more about this than I do. Ive read a couple of books about the era. Two questions for you. I agree he did very little but how important was the public perception that he totally cleaned up baseball (at least the vast general public). Second question is what you think of Honus Wagner? I understand this is a Colt board but you are the first person Ive come across that seems interested in prewar sports. Apologize for this to you Freaks

You can clean up the game without doing it on the front page of the New York Herald Tribune or the Baltimore Sun. Both Cobb and Speaker were successful managers who, in the prime of their careers, were forced out, never to return to the game.

As far as making the Hall because of his reputation for cleaning up the game, it’s more likely he made it because he was the commish. Four of the first 5 commissioners made it.

Expecting Landis to take action before the trial was unreasonable. He was a Federal judge and would have been hesitant to make any move that might taint a trial.

Within hours of the verdict, he announced the ban.

o


I never said or insinuated that Landis should have taken action before he was called in by the owners. I said that he was called in AFTER action had already been taken (Comiskey banned the 8 players in September of 1920, which was long before Landis was called in.) Landis was called in strictly for cosmetic purposes, to give the illusion that he was cleaning up baseball. And if you read my previous posts, you would see that there was irrefutable proof that he intentionally ignored the Ty Cobb-Tris Speaker game-fixing incident, an incident that literally had written proof of the fix. Kennesaw Landis was as phony and as disingenuous as any person associated with the crookedness of baseball at that time.

Also, if you know anything about Landis as a Federal Judge, you would know that he was known for grandstanding with ridiculous verdicts that he knew would be overturned (such as the 1907 Standard Oil case, which was overturned in 1908.) The man was as phony, transparent, and as bigoted as they come.

o

C&O Man life just isn't fair in the least. While alive anyway. I think folks like you are at least changing the narrative on these people now. What you have said jibes and clarifies what I have read. To bad you don't live in Arizona.

This is what I was getting at. You obviously are much more knowledgeable on the subject than I am so please correct me if I'm wrong, but since the courts found them not guilty wouldn't the Black Sox players have been allowed to continue playing if Landis had not have banned them? Obviously allowing them back on the field would have been extremely detrimental to the game.

Like Kray I think you're missing some nuance here. Here's a summary I found in this ESPN article: https://www.espn.com/classic/s/2001/0730/1233060.html

****************************



Tim Donaghy is banned for life from the NBA, and Rozier, Billups, and Jones are all suspended indefinitely and will likely be banned as well if found guilty. Pretty sure the NBA would take a HUGE hit if they were all allowed back into the league right now.

The point I was making is that if the Black Sox players would have been allowed to remain playing with only a minor tap on the wrist then there would have been nothing to prevent Arnold Rothstein or someone like him from fixing 1921 World Series, or the '22 Series, and on and on and on. Maybe someone else would have banned the players as well or the players would have been black listed, but since Landis is the one who banned them IMO you have to give him credit for it.

o


Yes, they would have been allowed to continue to play ....... and the game would have survived and even thrived, with or without them.

If you ever saw the movie "Quiz Show" (or read books on the subject) one poignant point of the movie is when Martin Scorsese's character (Martin Rittenhome, top executive of the Geritol company) tells a disillusioned Richard Goodwin that the public has a short memory, but the networks never forget. While Goodwin was trying to assert that the television careers of Dan Enright, Martin Freedman, and Jack Barry were over due to their involvement in the fixing of game shows, Scorsese/Rittenhome was predicting that they would all be back ....... and they were ...... in fact, both Jack Barry and Dan Enright later became multimillionaires in the early 1970's with a game show called Joker's Wild ...... not only were they back in television, but they were specifically back with (of all things) another game show.

The same is true of baseball, basketball, boxing, or any other major sport regarding scandals ...... if any of those players and/or coaches who are currently accused of wrongdoing/gambling on games ever came back to the NBA based on even the slightest presumption of innocence, the NBA would not cease to exist, or even be huirt at the box office ....... as I said before, the American public loves their sports, and no amount of scandal ...... not even a continuous, ongoing scandal, like what is happening in basketball ...... is going to drive them away.

Pete Rose admitted to betting on Reds games WHILE he was still playing for and managing the Reds, and there were still millions of fans who were clamoring for him to be inducted into the Hall-of-Fame, right up until the day that he died.

o

o


That article is not representing what actually happened.

Of course Cobb would say that he was misunderstood. Pete Rose also denied any wrong-doing along with almost every person that has ever gone to jail.

More significantly, Landis' behavior in regard to his exoneration of/ignoring the Cobb and Speaker game-fixing was completely hypocritical in regard to his treatment of the Black Sox. Landis banned the 8 White Sox players, in spite of them being found not guilty in a court of law ....... essentially saying that the Buck stops here, and nobody, not even a court of law, will transcend what I view to be justice and fairness ...... allowing Cobb and Speaker to remain in the game because they had not been found guilty without he himself (Landis) digging deeper into the case was passing the buck, and copping out. Furthermore, when he was later confronted about his inaction in regard to the Cobb/Speaker incident, he said that that incident occurred before was the commissioner (the Cobb-Speaker fixed games occurred in September of 1919), and so he felt that it was not his territory to act in a judgmental manner ...... which completely belies not only his attitude about the swift and permanent action that he took against the Black Sox (which also occurred before he was the commissioner), but also his entire career as a Federal Judge when he would hand ridiculous down fines and judgements that he knew would be overturned.

If you want to believe that Kenesaw Landis was at all credible in regard to either his career as a Federal Judge or as the Commissioner of MLB, you can ...... I happen to know, through extensive research, that nothing could be further from the truth.

As Benjamin Disraeli once said, "Innocence is precious, but truth is better." ...... I choose to take solace in the latter.

o

My understanding is that Cobb and Speaker didn’t ever throw a game, they just bet on one they believed was fixed.

As far as ignoring it, the fact is that after the scandal came to Landis’s attention, neither man ever managed another game.

And, I’m just curious; what could Landis have done differently in the Black Sox scandal?

o


Cobb and Speaker threw a game, they did not just bet on them.

Regarding the Black Sox, Landis should not have banned Buck Weaver, as Weaver specifically asked for a separate trial from his teammates, and was denied. Weaver appealed his banning every year until the day that he died in 1956, and Landis refused to accept the fact that Weaver played to the best of his abilities and never took a dime in regard to the fix ...... the notion that Weaver necessarily should have "promptly told his ball club about it" completely belies and is in direct contradiction to his extremely lax, dismissing of the Ty Cobb/Tris Speaker game-fixing incident, an incident of which there was documentation that they both threw a game and bet on games ...... with the Black Sox, Landis' blanket/extreme decision to ban each and every one of them, regardless of the fact that they were all exonerated in a court of law, and regardless of the fact that 2 of the players played to the best of their abilities (Weaver and Jackson), set the precedent that he was to be a "No nonsense/no tolerance" commissioner, and that he would deal with any and all accusations of fixing and betting on games harshly and firmly, with no wiggle room for any kind of nuance.


Landis' milquetoast, nonchalant handling of the Cobb/Speaker incident, particularly his statement that he was dropping the case "because it happened before he was commissioner," completely belies his handling of the Black Sox situation (particularly in the case of Buck Weaver), which proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that his interest first and foremost was grandstanding and expedience, not to rid the game of corruption.

o

Back to our Landis/Cobb/Speaker/Black Sox Debate. I found this article today that I thought was a good read on the Cobb/Speaker controversy:

https://www.vintagedetroit.com/gambl...oybpgbA-jQo9sK

Per this article Cobb and Speaker along w/ Leonard and Wood did indeed fix the game in question; however, the author does state that late season fixes after the pennant was decided were pretty common back then, Especially on the final day of the season:

I could definitely see this playing out where Landis saw the Cobb/Speaker game as the tip of the iceberg, so decided it best to keep the punishment in house (Cobb and Speaker were both let go from their respective teams in 1926 and never rehired as managers) and then write into the MLB bylaws the penatlies for gambling on the game. Pure speculation on my part, but IMO not unreasonable at all. And it aligns w/ the final tidbit from the article I posted yesterday as from what I know about Cobb he would definitely be the type that if he's going down he's taking the ship with him:

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXX

I fully agree that Buck Weaver got the shaft in the deal. IMO he should have been suspended, possibly up to a year, but a lifetime ban was way overkill for him since he did not take the bribe or throw games. Jackson is more of a gray area, but since he accepted the bribe (which he admitted to doing) I don't think his ban was necessarily unfair.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the trial a complete sham? To my knowledge the evidence was pretty overwhelming that the players on trial had accepted bribes and fixed the Series, which included multiple players confessing to it during their grand jury trial. Hell Eddie Cicotte admitted to hitting the Reds lead off batter in game 1 to signal that the fix was on.

We'll probably have to agree to disagree here. I don't think there's any question the game would have lost a lot of credibility and fans if the Black Sox players would have been allowed back on the field (with maybe the exception of Weaver). I also believe that if no strong deterrent had been put in place after the scandal then flood gates would have been wide open for more and more fixing scandals in games that actually mattered which very well could have damaged the game's credibility for good.

I have no idea about Landis' record as a judge, so I'll take your word on it. Also, I don't think he was baseball's white knight, but I do believe he had a pretty large impact on cleaning the game up which you're shortchanging. So we'll probably just have to agree to disagree there as well.

Damn, this thread has gone off the rails. Movie it to a other forum.

Well unfortunately we have nothing better to talk about :eek:

o


The trial was a sham.

3 signed confessions were mysteriously lost.

2 of the confessions were legitimate (Cicotte and Williams) while the 3rd "confession" was not (Joe Jackson) ...... Jackson could not read and write, and was coerced into signing the confession with an X mark. Jackson's "confession" was completely written out for him in advance.

o


o


This is what make Landis a complete phony, hypocrite, and why he deserves no credit for allegedly "cleaning up baseball."

With the Black Sox, Landis made it abundantly clear, with no wiggle room whatsoever, not even for Buck Weaver and Joe Jackson who both played to the best of their abilities, that any type of fixing and/or gambling would not be tolerated, and that they would never play professional baseball ever again.

But when he had hard evidence of other games being fixed (and gambled on), and with Ty Cobb asserting that if he went down he would tell all and bring many others down with him, Landis conveniently acted like a big pussy, and ignored it ........ Therefore, Landis DID NOT clean up baseball ...... he carefully and expediently cherry-picked which scandal (and which players) that he would come down hard on, and when an even bigger mess was put on his desk, he ignored it ....... that was nothing short of cowardly and disingenuous, and it absolutely drives home the point that I have been making about him all along. If Ty Cobb had hard evidence of 30 or 40 other players fixing games, and if Landis TRULY wanted to clean up the game and give it credibility, then Landis would have and should have dealt with each and every one of those players and banned them all for life, just like he did with the Black Sox ........ but he didn't do that, therefore her was a complete hypocrite, therefore he did not "clean up" baseball, and he deserves no credit other than coming along after the fact and conveniently dealing with only what he chose to deal with.

o

And it continues!

Not my point. Nobody cares whatever happened a century ago that is not relevant to a topic that this forum is meant to discuss.

To be fair there are at least 4 regular posters who have been discussing this over the past couple of days. But if you really want I suppose we can go back to arguing over whether Ballard should have been fired or not.

I don't know where to take this. Nothing new Colt to talk about, unless you got something. I'm sick of arguing about Ballard, don't give a shit about the playoffs and find it fascinating what other people have become experts at.

I started up a new thread on the General Discussion board.

https://www.coltfreaks.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=207595

o


I know what your point was.

I was making a joke with a meaningless, Ballard-related statement because of the thread derailment.

o

Locked On Colts Podcast
@LockedOnColts
·
2h
GOOD CALL: Why Indianapolis Colts Retaining Shane Steichen Was the RIGHT MOVE


https://youtu.be/4jGD4jHOWNM

o


The 9 Lives of Chris Ballard ...... How the Colts GM Has Survived for So Long in Indianapolis

(By James Boyd)

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/757...on-nine-lives/



If nothing else, Chris Ballard is a survivor. Over the past decade, the coaches, players and even owners have changed within the Indianapolis Colts’ franchise, yet the general manager has remained the same. Ballard is entering his 10th season at the helm of the Colts, but his job security isn’t buttressed by his resume. In fact, as you’ll see in our table below, Ballard’s lack of success puts him in a league of his own in terms of the NFL’s longest-tenured GM's.

So why does he keep getting more chances ???

With the Colts days away from kicking off their 2026 season, The Athletic took a look back at the nine lives of Ballard, examining each of his nine seasons running the show in Indy to see how he cultivated a 10th. Hint ...... sometimes, it’s just good to be liked.



2017

Record: ll 4-12


What happened: ) Andrew Luck missed the entire season due to a shoulder injury. Without their franchise QB, the Colts traded wide receiver Phillip Dorsett to the New England Patriots in exchange for quarterback Jacoby Brissett. Brissett, a 2016 3rd-round pick, went 4-11 as the starter and threw 13 TD's against 7 INT's. He was also sacked a league-high 52 times. Indianapolis lost 6 of its last 7 games to finish with its worst record since 2011, which was the year before the team drafted Luck.

Why Ballard returned: ) Ballard was only in his first year at the helm, replacing Ryan Grigson, who went 49-31 in 5 seasons ...... Ballard still has yet to surpass Grigson's 3 playoff wins and 2 division titles.

Ballard's job security was never in doubt given the unique circumstances he walked into with Luck already being sidelined. The Colts expressed confidence that Luck would make a full recovery, but that didn't stop them from making a significant organizational change by firing coach Chuck Pagano and replacing him with Frank Reich, who was the Philadelphia Eagles' offensive coordinator and had previously worked with Peyton Manning as the Colts' quarterbacks coach.



2018

Record: ll 10-6


What happened: ) Luck returned from his shoulder injury, and the 2012 No. 1 pick quickly flipped the franchise's fortunes. He threw 39 TD's against 15 INT's en route to being named the NFL’s Comeback Player of the Year while leading the Colts to the playoffs for the first time since the 2014 season. Indianapolis took down the Houston Texans in the wild-card round before falling to the Kansas City Chiefs in the divisional round. The win against the Texans remains Ballard's lone playoff victory.

Why Ballard returned: ) He wasn’t going anywhere after the Colts’ resurgent campaign. Luck once again looked like the franchise cornerstone they drafted him to be, and his performance throughout the regular season and the post-season sparked Indianapolis's hopes of rekindling the Manning glory days and becoming an annual championship contender. No one could’ve predicted what would come next.



2019

Record: ll 7-9


What happened: ) Luck shocked the NFL world by retiring just before the start of the season, which understandably changed the team’s trajectory. Indianapolis subsequently turned to Brissett, who steered the Colts to an impressive 5-2 start, highlighted by a road win over Patrick Mahomes' Chiefs. However, Brissett's play tapered off after he was hobbled by a knee injury. Indy lost 5 of its final 6 games, as it became abundantly clear that the team needed to upgrade at quarterback.

Why Ballard returned: ) Ballard was thrown one of the craziest curveballs in professional football history, and arguably in all of sports history. Luck, the player who had successfully filled the giant shoes left by Manning, walked away from football at just 29 years old. The 4-time Pro Bowler cited a cycle of injury, pain, and rehab for his abrupt retirement, which gave the Colts no time to find a long-term replacement. All things considered, Indianapolis fared pretty well in the first year of Luck's absence, and the franchise felt good about the rest of the roster that Ballard had put together.



2020

Record: ll 11-5

What happened: ) Indianapolis signed Philip Rivers (the first time!) to a one-year deal, and the eight-time Pro Bowler delivered for Ballard and the Colts. Rivers threw 24 touchdowns against 11 interceptions to lead the Colts to the playoffs alongside breakout star Jonathan Taylor. The rookie running back totaled 253 rushing yards in a regular-season finale win over the Jacksonville Jaguars to punch Indy's ticket to the postseason. The Colts narrowly lost to the Buffalo Bills in the wild-card round, falling just short of a fourth-quarter rally.

Why Ballard returned: ) The Colts' playoff berth completed a remarkable turnaround in the wake of Luck's retirement, and late team owner Jim Irsay made sure to commend Ballard for his team-building, highlighted by the acquisition of Rivers. Even after Rivers retired (the first time !!!), Irsay said that the Colts were "capable of competing for the Super Bowl very soon," so long as Ballard found a suitable replacement. About that ......

(It's also worth noting that just ahead of the 2021 season, Irsay furnished Ballard and Reich with contract extensions that carried them through the 2026 season.)



2021

Record: ll 9-8


What happened: ) After Rivers retired, the Colts traded a 2021 3rd-round pick and what ended up being a 2022 1st-round pick to the Philadelphia Eagles in exchange for Carson Wentz. Wentz, the 2016 No. 2 pick, threw 27 TD's against 7 INT's. His performance was aided by Taylor, who exploded for a league-high 1,811 rushing yards en route to a first-team All-Pro selection. But when the Colts needed to win at least one of their last two games to make the playoffs, Wentz struggled mightily in back-to-back losses to the lowly Las Vegas Raiders and the Jacksonville Jaguars. His lackluster performance drew the ire of Irsay.

Why Ballard returned: ) Irsay placed most of the blame for the Colts' end-of-season collapse on Wentz, not the man who traded premium draft capital to acquire him. The owner blasted Wentz at the league's annual off-season meetings, saying in part, "I think that the worst thing you can do is have a mistake and try to keep living with it going forward." One could argue that it was unfair for Ballard to escape Irsay's wrath unscathed, but the owner made it clear through his words and actions that he held Wentz most responsible for his disappointment, and wanted the QB gone.



2022

Record: ll 4-12-1

What happened: ) Irsay was so fed up with Wentz that after just one season, the Colts traded him to the Washington Commanders and replaced him with Matt Ryan via a trade with the Atlanta Falcons. But Ryan, the 2016 league MVP, turned out to be even worse than Wentz as the Colts' offensive line, and ultimately their season, fell apart. Ryan threw 14 TDs against 13 INT's, and was benched. Not long after, Reich was fired midway through the season and replaced by former Colts standout center Jeff Saturday, who had no prior coaching experience in either college or the NFL. Indianapolis ended the season losing its last 7 games under Saturday, including the worst collapse in NFL history in a game against the Minnesota Vikings.

Why Ballard returned: ) If there was ever a time for the Colts to move on from Ballard, this was it. To be clear, it was Irsay's idea to hire Saturday, not Ballard's, but the GM was far from blameless in the team's failures. Ballard admitted in his end-of-season news conference that he'd been "stubborn and dogmatic" in his roster-building approach and even said, "I fired myself 50 times this year." However, perhaps out of loyalty and fondness more than anything else, Irsay didn't fire Ballard. Instead, he gave Ballard another shot and allowed the GM to hire Eagles OC Shane Steichen to be the team's new coach. After that, Ballard turned his attention to one of the most pivotal drafts in franchise history.



2023

Record: ll 9-8

What happened: ) After landing the No. 4 pick, Indianapolis finally bucked its trend of acquiring veteran retread QBs and drafted Anthony Richardson. The dual-threat signal caller showed promise early on, but he only appeared in 4 games after suffering a severe AC joint sprain in his throwing shoulder that required season-ending surgery. Richardson was replaced by veteran Gardner Minshew, who kept Indianapolis in the playoff hunt. The Colts were just one TD-drive away from knocking off the Texans in the regular-season finale and securing a post-season berth, but an errant pass from Minshew on 4th-and-1 spelled the end of their season.

Why Ballard returned: ) The belief within the Colts' organization was that with a healthy Richardson, who was much more explosive than Minshew as a passer and runner (though one could argue that Richardson was more erratic), they would've made the playoffs. Of course, Richardson's rookie sample size was small, but he'd flashed enough potential to at least make Ballard look like he'd pointed the team in a better direction with the hope of Richardson someday blossoming into the face of the franchise.



2024

Record: ll 8-9

What happened: ) The Colts ran it back with a healthy Richardson, though his sophomore campaign was a roller-coaster that featured a lot more low points than high points. One of the biggest mistakes that Richardson made was "tapping out" of a game against the Texans because he was tired. He was subsequently benched for what Steichen cited as a lack of game preparation and maturity, only to return to the starting lineup 2 games later after veteran Joe Flacco played poorly in his stead. Richardson played arguably the best game of his career in his return, scoring 3 total TD's in a tight win over the New York Jets. However, his inaccuracy remained an issue, evidenced by his single-season franchise-low 47.7 completion percentage. Richardson was unable to finish the season due to back spasms, and the Colts missed the playoffs yet again.

Why Ballard returned: ) Again, Irsay showed more patience than most owners would (or should) have toward a GM whose highest-drafted player was benched because he didn't have the right work habits. Asked why Richardson had to be removed from the starting lineup before the magnitude of his role sunk in, Ballard compared him to a child being told to clean their room ...... "They don't do it," he quipped in his end-of-season news conference. That was a damning admission from Ballard, especially after he lauded Richardson's dedication shortly after bringing him to Indianapolis. But even that missed pick wasn't enough for Irsay to move on from the GM he once compared to Michael Jordan. (Yes, that really happened.)



2025

Record: ll 8-9


What happened: ) Indianapolis signed Daniel Jones to compete with Richardson for the starting job, and Jones won the QB-1 title by the end of training camp. It was a huge risk for the Colts to hand the keys to Jones, who was jettisoned from the New York Giants just months earlier while simultaneously pulling the plug on Richardson. But it paid off in a big way, as Jones led the Colts to an 8-2 start that placed them atop the AFC standings. Jones, however, fractured his left fibula and tore his right Achilles tendon, which derailed the Colts' campaign amid a slew of other key injuries. Indianapolis coaxed Philip Rivers out of retirement to try to save its season, though he went winless in his 3 starts, as the team failed to reach the post-season for the 5th straight year.

Why Ballard returned: ) Jim Irsay died in May of 2025, thus allowing his eldest daughter, Carlie Irsay-Gordon, to take over as the team's principal owner. She quickly backed Ballard and Steichen at the end of the 2025 campaign, and later stated that she believed that the healthy version of the Colts is who they truly are. She even compared last season to hitting pause on a movie (due to all of the injuries), and believes that this year the Colts will be able to resume it with a much happier ending. Some may argue that is a naïve way to think, while others may think that she's right to keep that faith.

One key difference from years past, however, is that for the first time in Ballard's tenure he's entering the final year of his contract. Irsay-Gordon has stressed that "the sense of urgency has never been higher," but only time will reveal what that truly means for the GM whose longevity is unmatched for those with his track record.

o

Most owners would, indeed, have fired Chris Ballard somewhere along the way. The thing is, though, Jim Irsay wasn’t a typical owner. His 13 years serving as GM instilled in him an understanding of the importance of having a premium Quarterback and the difficulty in finding one.

He wasn’t going to blame Chris Ballard for shuffling through Matt Ryan and Carson Wentz because he had shuffled through Jack Trudeau and Chris Chandler. A man who swung and whiffed on Jeff George wasn’t going to fire a GM for striking out on Anthony Richardson.

If Jim had lived and the Daniel Jones experiment had failed, a parting of the ways might have happened. There’s no way to know.

o


Carson Wentz was not as awful as many Colts fans remember him to be.

Wentz' raw stats were 27 TD's, 7 INT's, and a 62.4% Pass Completion rate.

The team had a record of 9-6 for their first 15 games before shitting the bed in the final 2 games of the season against the Raiders and the Jaguars ...... yes, Wentz himself shit the bed in those last 2 games, but so did the entire the Colts team ...... they got annihilated on both sides of the ball in a 26-11 loss to an awful Jaguars team.

Believe it or not, even l Chopped Wood l was singing the praises of Carson Wentz and the trade in which he was acquired in after the Colts beat the Arizona Cardinals on their homefield in a nationally televised game to improve the team's record to 9-6, which put them in prime position to win the division with 2 games left to play.



The disastrous 2022 season when the Colts went 4-12-1 was much more the fault of the atrocious offensive line than it was Matt Ryan's ...... it's a minor miracle that Ryan somehow managed to guide the team to a 4-5-1 record before they completely collapsed and lost their last 7 games ...... if Philip Rivers had had that offensive line "blocking" for him when he led the Colts to an 11-5 record in 2020, not only would the team's record been about 5-11 or 4-12, but Rivers would not have survived more than 5 or 6 games before they would have had to carry him off of the field on a stretcher.

o

I remember watching a colts game with a couple dudes that werent colts fans and they asked me about Wentz towards the end of the year.

I remember saying "I don't care what happens during the offseason, this mother fucker needs to be off the team. That is all I want"

Wentz was fucking atrocious. fuck your stats

o


Closing your eyes, plugging your ears, and screaming what you want to believe regardless of any facts presented to you .......I did that when I was 6 years-old......it's too bad that you're still at that stage.

Wentz was atrocious after he left the Colts. He was not atrocious when he was with the Colts. Wentz was awful in the last 2 games of the 2021 season, as was the entire Colts team. Those last 2 games don't define the entire 17-game season.

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The reason the Colts were, even, marginally competitive, in 2021, had nothing to do with Carson Wentz. He was broken when he arrived in Indianapolis, and no amount of coaching could salvage him. Somewhere in the first third of the season, they figured out that they could win by handing the ball to Jonathan Taylor. On the year, he gained more than 1800 yards, and the mantra became just run the damned ball.

By week 17 the jig was up. The Raiders and Jacksonville loaded the box, shut down the run, and Wentz wasn’t able to mount a passing attack to a receiving corps with TY Hilton and Michael Pittman.

As far as stats are concerned, he had only 2 games of 300 plus yards through the air, and 2 more over 250. Against New England, het totaled 57 yards. He had 106 vs Buffalo, and 150 against the Niners.

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Taylor was sensational that season, and he had more to do with the success of the team than Wentz did. But Wentz had 25 TD's and 6 INT's and a QB rating of 94.8 through the first 15 games of the season. The fact that Wentz was that efficient in terms of TD-to-INT ratio certainly had something to with the team's success.

Regarding Wentz' modest passing yards for the majority of the team's games that season, the fact that Jonathan Taylor had 1,811 yards rushing that season had a lot to do with that. If you have a RB leading the NFL with that many yards, large passing yards are not required for QB-efficiency ...... as I previously stated, Wentz was far from horrible in the first 15 games of the season, and he was awful in the final 2 games of the season.

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It just dawned on me (duh) about a parallel of Jonathan Taylor's success.

Last year, when the Colts started the season at 8-2 and they had a solid, mobile quarterback (Daniel Jones), Jonathan Taylor was a world-beater ...... after Jones broke his leg in the Chiefs game, Taylor all but disappeared in the Colts' 7-game losing streak...... the previously-mobile Daniel Jones was hobbling around on a broken leg, and Uncle Phil was 44 years-old and had the mobility of a statue.


Jonathan Taylor, 1st 10 games of 2025: lllll 1,139 l YDS, lll 6.0 ll YPC

Jonathan Taylor, last 7 games of 2025: lllllll 446 lll YDS, ll. 3.3 ll YPC


As Kray and myself both pointed out, Jonathan Taylor had more to do with the 2021 Colts' solid 9-6 record in the first 15 games of the 2021 season than Carson Wentz did ...... however, Carson Wentz' mobility and his efficiency passing (25 TD's and 6 INT's in the first 15 games of the season) certainly helped open the gates for Taylor to have the monster season that he did that year ...... I don't think that Taylor would have had that monster season if the Colts had had an atrocious quarterback that season.


I've been among Taylor's biggest supporters here on ColtFreaks ...... but I think that it is pretty clear that Taylor needs either a very good quarterback (like Philip Rivers was in 2020) or at the very least, a very mobile quarterback who is at least average overall at the QB position (Carson Wentz, Anthony Richardson) to be a major force.

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C and O, do you have a reason why that is true? To me the guy doesn't try as hard for some stupid reason. I say this not because of his running but becasue he was a great pass blocker when he had DJ back there, then it just fell of of the cliff. Now why would THAT be? I don't love the guy like most people here. He disappeared in all aspects of the game last year without DJ it just wasn't his running. Mentally he seemed to perfectly mirror our teams year. Great when we were flying but nothing when times were tough.

yeah


he was so great that we traded a 1st and 3rd or whatever for him and shipped him off immediately after the season

he was atrocious. stop box score scouting

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If he was atrocious, the Colts would have had a record of about 4-11 heading into the final 4 games of the 2021 season, and Jonathan Taylor would have been very fortunate to gain 1,200 yards, instead of the 1,811 that he had.

Stop believing whatever you want to believe in spite of all of the evidence to the contrary, like a stubborn little child ...... then again, asking you to be a little mature and admit that your overt bias skews reality is like asking a Colts fan to root for the Ravens today.

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I have no idea why Jonathan Taylor disappears in those situations, Old Colt ...... the only thing that I can think of is that as great as Taylor is when he has a good QB, (or at least an average QB with high mobility, like Carson Wentz or Anthony Richardson) is that perhaps defenses can zero in on him and take away any element of surprise ...... if you have an atrocious quarterback with no mobility, then the first thing that defenses will do is concentrate largely on stopping Jonathan Taylor.

Or perhaps, as you suggest, he just gets demoralized when things aren't going the team's way, and he gets frustrated when defenses stop him easier because they know that he will be getting the ball ...... that's also possible ...... even though these guys are highly-paid professional athletes, they are human and subject to the emotional frailties that everybody else is.

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Whatever the reason C&O it's a real shame.

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It is a shame ...... but even with his flaw of not being able to be effective unless his quarterback is either playing well and/or is very mobile, I'll take Taylor over 90% of the rest of the RB's in the NFL.

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