I would rather keep Nelson. Interesting take though. You have tremendous confidence that that first rounder would be a good player. I don't. Even if it was the first pick it still is 50-50 at best.

I agree, but right now, with our team needs, and lack of a competent QB...we need to pool as many assets as possible. Right now, the 1st round asset and lack of having to pay Nelson going forward is worth more than the chance that the 1st round pick returns with a poor player.
The thing that makes this plan suspect is only the fact that this upcoming draft lacks any QB depth whatsoever.
If Ballard doesn't make a move at QB and FAST he is going to find himself out of a job soon too. Reich hitched his wagon to Wentz and unfortunately will go as he goes, but Ballard has done more to earn himself another year or two to prove a positive trajectory.
Having a 20 million dollar guard who doesn't impact the game too much over a 7 million dollar guard is nonsensical when we have Stormy Daniels sized gaping holes at QB, WR, TE, EDGE, CB.
I want to stress that I love Nelson. He changes a lot of the mentality of our line. But not at his cost and with our needs. The good thing the rest of the league knows him, loves him and would give him a nice haul to get him. I would honestly be on the horn right now with the Eagles to give us a 1st back to us for Q and Minshew....its not like the Eagles don't plan to run the ball, their QB is cheap for a number of years, etc. The relationship with Balllard and their FO is there, we didn't bitch out of the Wentz starting %, etc.
Forgive me for going off on the rails with a hypothetical, but this is literally the only thing going forward that could be a positive for our team to dig ourselves out of the Wentz hole.

No heads will roll. When irsay extended grigson and pagano, I believe he talked about wanting to establish a consistent and sustained organization. Eventually it got to be too much and he realized they were not the right ones. I am guessing he doesn't feel that way (yet) about ballard and reich. I really dont think ballard is going anywhere soon. Reich is probably set for a bit. They invested too much into wentz trade to release him after this year especially with injury and covid issues. They will all be back next year but I would guess that if wentz doesnt improve then they move off him after next season.

Add: I bet irsay is plenty pissed though, and ballard and reich will be hearing about it. I would love to see some of that on the last hard knocks!

He was injured last year.

You know, they can resign Q and still do all the things you mentioned. They’ll have the cap space.

And if you’re looking to get rid of guys who don’t live up to their pay level, I’d suggest you start with the highest paid player on the team, Carson Wentz. He actually sucks.

Trading generational players for draft picks is never a good idea, for a million different reasons.

We are stuck with Wentz for another year. Unfortunately I think that is the reality unless Irsay says dump him no matter the cost.

With that in mind I think LT is the top priority. The engine of this team is the offensive line, and the engine of the offensive line is LT. The line fell apart every time the LT play was bad. Either draft or find a competent LT. Still shaking my head of going for an injured Fisher and not Leno.

Next is WR. They need a free agent and a draft pick. Guys that run good routes and can create separation. Wentz can’t throw into tight windows consistently, they need guys that can get open. The routes I saw yesterday were rounded off and lazy. Need some quality here.

Yet again, DE. Like I said at the beginning of the season this is still an issue. If you can’t pressure the QB in 3 seconds your defense won’t work. Invest in a speed rusher and put him on the team. Paye and Dayo show promise, but we need some more in there, can’t just have them. This will be going on year six of not enough pass rush.

Finally, an athletic TE. Doyle will likely retire. Need someone to run those seam routes and who can catch. Wentz loves to throw to the TE in the seam, so giving him another option might make him open up his check downs.


As for Nelson, you don’t trade an all pro for picks. You need more talent not less. The chance you draft someone as impactful is pretty low. If you didn’t intend to pay him, then you should not have drafted him.

But I really think I am making a case for the one in a million reasons that it may be a good idea. It's not the player, its the position. Would our team really be worse off than it currently is without Big Q?
Big Q with his contract vs No Big Q, No big Money to a guard, and an extra pick or two to work with?
Seems like a no brainer to me.
If Q played LT I may think differently. If Q played QB or EDGE or even WR OR CB, I would just pay him.
We have solid OL, solid depth and an all Pro RB. We will be just fine without paying Q 20 million to be a guard.

That may even give us just enough fire power to trade up in the next two drafts! Just because we can afford to pay Q what he is worth doesn't mean it is the best move for this franchise. Sorta like having to let Manning go. Makes sense for everyone involved. Besides, Q is starting to show a few signs of wear in tear.....while his value is at its highest, cash in...since we just pissed a few dollars down the drain with Wentz. We have a bandaid here and we should use it. just my two cents

So what your saying is that after next season the Colts will start over again! Can anyone in this can base tell me when the HELL the Colts stop with this fucking around with fuckin players that are almost good enough, and start the multiple championships run??

Unfortunately, those days might be gone. Most all of the former success was Bill Polian's doing. Ballard is a good GM, but he isn't Polian level. We might be in purgatory for another decade.

NO, just no. You do not get rid of Q. He is the heart and soul of this offensive line. He's the beast that nobody wants to face. Pay the man, he is worth it. Not willing to trade a proven all pro for some draft picks that may not even pan out. Having said that, I would trade Wentz for a combo meal at KFC. I was so fucking wrong about Wentz. He just fucking sucks. What was Wentz's QBR yesterday, around 4? He is a warrior, but he is not a good QB. I think the whole team knows that. He's no Peyton Manning or Andrew Luck which I didn't expect. But hell, he's not even as good as an old Philip Rivers, not even close.

Q is a damn good player and a respected leader in the locker room. You don’t just get rid of a guy like that for some college kid who may not even be any good. This isn’t Madden. These are real people we’re talking about. People who have relationships among themselves, who have built relationships. As far as I know, Q is one of the most respected guys on the team. You can’t just ship a guy like that out and not realize the effect it will have on the team.

It’s not as simple as you make it seem.

For me, it’s tough to knock Frank Reich’s play calling.

Quite possibly. Why does this surprise you.


Nope. That's on ballard.


I dont see this happening. Too hard. Only one under manning. Rodgers only has one. Multiple championship runs just dont really happen (outside of NE unfortunately)

We did to Peyton Manning, who was more beloved by the fans and more respected in any lock room he stepped foot in.
More so than Q will ever be.
Manning was moved for a guy (Luck) who hadn't proven jack at the pro level either.

Sometimes you need to make hard decisions for the better of the overall team. That is my point. You're right, not as simple as I make it seems, but business decisions often aren't.

there was a lot more to it than that.

I believe when I see it. Right now bunch of hot air.

Dudes! TY liked this post by Darius Butler.

Tells us all we need to know. Wentz has to go. If this is the attitude by one of the captains. Team is talking, you have to get rid of him now. If he starts the season and it is another wasted year, everyone will revolt. Rip the bandaid off.

https://twitter.com/lockedoncolts/st...007114243?s=21

I don't remember who said we had to fix LT, or who suggested trading Q, but what if Q were to be moved to LT? I saw this suggested elsewhere, and it could solve the problem of paying Q and fixing LT. Reed can play LG.

There's likely one possible scenario in the universe in which the Colts part with Manning after 13 seasons... It just so happened that the one scenario actually occurred.

Broke neck Manning with a few years left vs. dream prospect that literally checks every single box there is and that you expect to have for 15 years.

Not the same ballpark as arguably the best OL in the league in his prime being traded for a 50/50 shot at a good player.

He liked because Luck is his guy.

Players know who's good and who isn't.

Great discussion by all. Here are my thoughts on some of the things discussed:

Ballard and Reich aren't going anywhere and we're stuck with Wentz for at least 1 more year - Unfortunately that's what will probably happen. Hopefully that shit show yesterday will drive us to improve the backup QB situation and put some heat on Ballard and Reich to where they know if their team pulls this shit again then they're gone.

Trading Big Q - Actually not a bad idea if we could get a haul for him and be able to draft Kenny Pickett or an elite pass rusher along with multiple other picks. Probably wouldn't happen, but it's a good idea. After all yesterday proved that having an elite LG doesn't mean shit if your QB sucks ass.

Moving Big Q to LT - Also a good idea. We'll be paying Q like he's an elite LT, so why not see if he can make the move over there. Especially if Wentz is still around next year since it will be pretty much a throw away year.

The Official Heads Need to Roll Over This Shit Thread
 

Am I the only one that doesn’t think we would get some huge haul trading Q?

On top of that there weren't any guarantees that Peyton would be able to play again post neck surgery. Maybe one day we'll get the whole story, but there was a lot of talk at the time that he could only throw the ball ~10 yards when we released him. If that's true then releasing Peyton and drafting Luck was the safer option.

https://www.indystar.com/story/sport...ry/9151689002/

Article at IndyStar where they compare some other last week choke jobs to the shit show of yesterday. The other games listed:

'08 Bucs lose to 4-11 Raiders 31-24.
'06 Broncos lose to 6-9 49ers 26-23 in OT.
'00 Lions lose to the 4-11 Bears 23-20.

The Colts getting curb stomped by the Jagoffs is easily much worse than any of those losses.

If we don't get a haul then don't trade him, but why not float it out there to see if we can?

I hope the Lions draft the player the Jagoffs want the most, although they will never admit it!:D

Actually the Jagoffs still ended up with the number 1 pick :rolleyes:

D`oh!

When Jhon Priine died we all did

I would hope that Ballard is looking at every option right now because indeed he is between a Rock (ironically he needs to make a decision on Rock too) and a hard place.

I think Kelly would also be an obvious choice to try and move, but I don't think the haul for an aging, oft injured (albeit talented) center would be enough to make it happen.
I still think we get a 1st round pick (later half of the first round) and maybe another pick or a player if a team wants Nelson. I would hope we then use that first round pick, trade it, and load up our arsenal for the 2023 draft where they may be a first round QB we like and our first that year is better after Wentz flames out and we let him walk.
If we know we are stuck with Wentz for another year, and there is nobody better available until the draft that can be obtained for cheap...then load up for the year after and try to keep the roster young.

Every year since Luck "retired" has been a throw away year !! Its time Irsay stopped buying dead rock stars guitars for millions, and started worrying about the direction the Colts are headed in !!

Quote from irsay:

“One thing that’s clear is changes need to be made,’’ Irsay told Fox59 on Monday evening. “And they will be made. We also realize we have to do it cautiously and with a thorough evaluation and full discussion in a calm environment. It’s not an emotional thing at all. It’s about evaluating the whole program and clearly changes need to be made.’’

Assistant Coaches?
Wentz?
FA philosophy?
Team building philosophy?

Manning told the Colts to do it. It was the smart move. At that point they weren’t even sure he would play again. It was all optimism at best.

He’s john hannah. You dont trade a guy who could be a HOF er, you build AROUND them.

I’m getting tired of the ten year build. We are going into this off-season with the same issues of last off season. I think building through the draft is the right way. But if you only do it, including busts, by the time you fill all your holes, your good picks at the beginning of the process will be in the twilight of their careers.

Eberflus’ maddening decisions in coverage theory.

I know options are limited next year concerning QB. And it is a bad QB draft. But going into another year with Wentz seems like another year of just embracing mediocrity.

https://www.1075thefan.com/kevins-sp...ines-for-2022/

This is the change I want to see. His ideas don't work. He has not used a blitz when needed, except for a few times. Lawrence was as good a candidate for a blitz or two early on, and they were not even an option. Good riddance, if he goes.

And this is not just a knee jerk. I have been his biggest critic for some time.

Jags were playing an effective zone in the last game blanketing routes with a defender near every receiver. Their dline was beating one-on-one matchups. I just don't know why we can't do the same?

agree. we built a good core now take some leaps so we can compete.

The fact that Reich wouldn’t commit to Wentz going forward tells me that they’re gonna be looking for yet another quarterback for next season. I’m guessing that was a big part of the meeting between Irsay, Ballard, and Reich Sunday evening.