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-   -   New Starting QB Brissett: Perhaps a Legacy of His Own (http://www.coltfreaks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=79854)

ChoppedWood 10-22-2019 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pez (Post 138451)
I take your point, but would argue that there were multiple such games in 2017. He started 8 days after signing, went on to a 4-12 record and was sacked 52 times.

I don't view that he has anything else to prove in terms of his resiliency.

Very sound points and in some respects a testimony to what he is made of. You could make a point that in that season which was an absolute disaster, he never had one of these complete crapper games from the QB position- think Donald from last night... no scratch that, the local high school kid would resign in deference to the integrity of the game if he played that bad...

Don't get me wrong, I'm not looking forward to one of those games but I'm not naive that one isn't going to happen and when it does, my bet is he sacks up and comes roaring back ala Peyton or Luck and doesn't fade out like so many other "flash in the pan" guys have...

albany ed 10-22-2019 09:48 AM

I think one big difference between most of the Manning led teams and the Luck led teams and this team is that if Manning or Luck had bad or even mediocre games, the Colts lost. This team has a bunch of contributors. All of them are capable of playing good or bad games, but there are so many, that opposing teams can't key on one, two or even three players to shut us down. You have 3 RBs with different skill sets, 3 TEs, several WRs (when healthy), studs on the OL and on defense, there are now some pass rushers, lbers and DBs that can impact the game with turnovers or sacks. The defense is not great, but getting better all the time. With this balance, it's possible for Jacoby to have a pedestrian game and the team still wins. With Manning and Luck, they needed to play well or we lost.

Chromeburn 10-22-2019 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pez (Post 138455)
Quietly, Brissett has:
4th most passing TDs in the league
3rd least interceptions
24th least pass attempts
I think a lot of the 'game manager' talk is just people latching on to a term and using it so they have something to say.

More accurately, Reich's game plan produces a different set of expectations from the Quarterback position than we see frequently. JB so far is filling the role. If Vinny had made one of his two missed FGs, or made his extra point In week 1, we would be a 5-1 team and the conversations about us would be different.

There's some interesting poultry going on: How much is Reich changing for Brissett and how mush is Brissett changing for Reich?

I think it’s just people trying to make an evaluation on limited data. It’s the culture we have created be first to get the word out no matter if it’s accurate or not.

We saw him take a backseat to the run game, so he was a game manager.

We then saw him throw a lot on a defense with a poor secondary and determined to stop the run, so now he is a game changer.

I think he is doing pretty well, but he also has a good team around him. The question I have about him is can he beat the best defenses at playoff time. When they have shut down the run game and he has to pass to win. A team that has a good secondary. Now scheme will help him a lot, but at some point he will have to make those impossible throws to win a game. Can he do it? Hopefully we will find out.

indycolts2 10-22-2019 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chromeburn (Post 138491)
I think it’s just people trying to make an evaluation on limited data. It’s the culture we have created be first to get the word out no matter if it’s accurate or not.

We saw him take a backseat to the run game, so he was a game manager.

We then saw him throw a lot on a defense with a poor secondary and determined to stop the run, so now he is a game changer.

I think he is doing pretty well, but he also has a good team around him. The question I have about him is can he beat the best defenses at playoff time. When they have shut down the run game and he has to pass to win. A team that has a good secondary. Now scheme will help him a lot, but at some point he will have to make those impossible throws to win a game. Can he do it? Hopefully we will find out.

That last point you make is why I'm hoping Campbell gets healthy and becomes the weapon Colts brass envisioned and Funchess as well. I refuse to take shots at those receivers who are available because it seems they always are but Campbell/Funchess were supposed to be game changers and if faced with a top defense and having to pass in order to win JB needs them out there.

indycolts2 10-22-2019 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaka (Post 138390)
By the way, I do think that if Brissett continues to play well, he WILL try his best to break the Colts' bank. I would do the same thing, so I don't expect anything different from Jacoby.

I hope we get to find out. I'm always intrigued by the mentality of QB's who feel setting the new bar is more important than still getting generational wealth yet making sure the team can still maneuver and not be handicapped by their contract.

Chromeburn 10-22-2019 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by indycolts2 (Post 138494)
That last point you make is why I'm hoping Campbell gets healthy and becomes the weapon Colts brass envisioned and Funchess as well. I refuse to take shots at those receivers who are available because it seems they always are but Campbell/Funchess were supposed to be game changers and if faced with a top defense and having to pass in order to win JB needs them out there.

Funchess likely will become an outlet on blitz downs with mancoverage. Parris seems like a gadget weapon right now. He can run deep but JB has trouble knowing when to pull the trigger on those deep balls and is late often in his timing. Still should be a bit better with them.


Quote:

Originally Posted by indycolts2 (Post 138495)
I hope we get to find out. I'm always intrigued by the mentality of QB's who feel setting the new bar is more important than still getting generational wealth yet making sure the team can still maneuver and not be handicapped by their contract.

Who does this? I can think of Brady and that’s it. Everyone else wants to get paid just like any other industry.

Maniac 10-23-2019 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by indycolts2 (Post 138494)
That last point you make is why I'm hoping Campbell gets healthy and becomes the weapon Colts brass envisioned and Funchess as well. I refuse to take shots at those receivers who are available because it seems they always are but Campbell/Funchess were supposed to be game changers and if faced with a top defense and having to pass in order to win JB needs them out there.

Where was this said that Funchess was supposed to be a "game changer"?

albany ed 10-23-2019 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maniac (Post 138567)
Where was this said that Funchess was supposed to be a "game changer"?

Not sure where it was said, BUT, there's 13 million rea$ons to think that Ballard thought as much.

AlwaysSunnyinIndy 10-23-2019 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colts And Orioles (Post 138212)
o
(vs. TEXANS, 10/20)


Jacoby Brissett became just the 3rd QB in franchise history (1953 - Present) to have thrown 4 TD passes, 0 INT's, and 300 or more yards in a single game.


The other 2 to have done so ......... Johnny Unitas and Peyton Manning.

SOURCE: ) ESPN News Services


o



Jacoby was named the AFC Offensive Player of the Week for his performance against the Texans.

Congratulations to him - well deserved!


https://www.colts.com/news/jacoby-br...-week-7-texans

Maniac 10-23-2019 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albany ed (Post 138576)
Not sure where it was said, BUT, there's 13 million rea$ons to think that Ballard thought as much.

That's the natural progression of salaries.

He's the 24th highest avg salary WR, and tied for 155th in overal league avg salary.

I still am not seeing why there is this expectation of him being a game changer.

Colts And Orioles 10-23-2019 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colts And Orioles (Post 138212)
o


(vs. TEXANS, 10/20)


Jacoby Brissett became just the 3rd QB in franchise history (1953 - Present) to have thrown 4 TD passes, 0 INT's, and 300 or more yards in a single game.


The other 2 to have done so ......... Johnny Unitas and Peyton Manning.




SOURCE: ) ESPN News Services


o

o



To keep this in perspective, regarding the eras in which these 3 different quarterbacks played in ........



Johnny Unitas: llllll),, 1956-1973 lll.) (1956-1972 with the Colts)


Peyton Manning: ll..,, 1998-2015 llll) (1998-2010 with the Colts)


Jacoby Brissett: llllll,) 2016- 2019 llll. (2017-2019 with the Colts)




A) ) Prior to 1974, a defensive player could hit a receiver an unlimited number of times downfield, so long as the ball was not in the air.

Starting in 1974, the most severe rule change regarding pass receivers and defenders was enacted ...... a player could only make contact one time beyond 3 yards of the line of scrimmage. This makes one appreciate what Otto Graham, Johnny Unitas, Fran Tarkenton, Bart Starr, Sonny Jurgensen, etc. accomplished. These quarterbacks all had most or all of their careers played prior to the 1974 season.


B) ) In 1977, the rule was amended to aid the pass receivers a second time. Starting that season, a defender could only make contact with a receiver one time, and one time only ........ whether it be within 3 yards of the line of scrimmage, or further downfield.


C) ) In 1978, the rule was amended to aid the pass receivers yet again. Starting that season, a defender could make contact with a receiver only one time, and within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage. If the defender made contact with a receiver 6 yards or more from the line of scrimmage it was now considered pass interference, even if the ball was not yet in the air.



* ) In the last 10-15 years, more rule changes protecting both the receivers and the quarterbacks has allowed offensive statistics to increase even higher than they already had been.



o

albany ed 10-24-2019 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maniac (Post 138590)
That's the natural progression of salaries.

He's the 24th highest avg salary WR, and tied for 155th in overal league avg salary.

I still am not seeing why there is this expectation of him being a game changer.

There are 32 teams, and each team starts 2 WRs most of the time. That's 64 starting WRs. Quick math tells me he'd the highest paid WR on at least 8 teams.

Dam8610 10-24-2019 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albany ed (Post 138576)
Not sure where it was said, BUT, there's 13 million rea$ons to think that Ballard thought as much.

Funchess is on a 1 year, $10 million deal.

YDFL Commish 10-24-2019 08:02 AM

I look at it this way. If Funchess comes back and tears it up in the playoffs, the $13 million will look like a wise investment, and nobody will care where he is on the scale of WR pay.

Besides, that $13 million hasn't prevented Ballard from making a single move that he could or may make.

Chromeburn 10-24-2019 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YDFL Commish (Post 138711)
I look at it this way. If Funchess comes back and tears it up in the playoffs, the $13 million will look like a wise investment, and nobody will care where he is on the scale of WR pay.

Besides, that $13 million hasn't prevented Ballard from making a single move that he could or may make.

Funchess was worth the try, we need a 2nd receiver that complements TY. Still might pay off.

We could use one of those pass rushers Green Bay signed, that we were in on, right now.

Chromeburn 10-24-2019 10:30 AM

One thing I wanted to say about Brisset in this last game is his touch on throws seemed to be a little better. He still strong armed some stuff, but he didn't strong arm every throw, which might mean things are slowing down for him and he is processing in the pocket more.

Also a shout out to the protection he is receiving which is allowing him to process things. Except for Glowinski who is the weak link there I think the line has been doing well.

YDFL Commish 10-24-2019 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chromeburn (Post 138721)
Funchess was worth the try, we need a 2nd receiver that complements TY. Still might pay off.

We could use one of those pass rushers Green Bay signed, that we were in on, right now.

I wouldn't be opposed to trading for Vic Beasley on a 1 year rental. I think his lack of production in Atlanta is largely due to how he is being misused there. That entire defense is a hot mess, and much of it is due to coaching.

No more than a 3rd round pick though.

Chromeburn 10-24-2019 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YDFL Commish (Post 138727)
I wouldn't be opposed to trading for Vic Beasley on a 1 year rental. I think his lack of production in Atlanta is largely due to how he is being misused there. That entire defense is a hot mess, and much of it is due to coaching.

No more than a 3rd round pick though.

Beasley scares me, I think he might be fools gold. He had that one good year then has been largely disappointing since. I remember reading an article and they went through his rookie sacks and they were mostly due to luck and opportunity and not effort. For example; he is unblocked and has an easy path to the QB. I'd say no to the Von Miller rumors also.

Grady Jarrett on the other hand...

Maniac 10-24-2019 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albany ed (Post 138701)
There are 32 teams, and each team starts 2 WRs most of the time. That's 64 starting WRs. Quick math tells me he'd the highest paid WR on at least 8 teams.

And the vast majority of those are just decent players. Very few are game changers. Explain to me why Funchess is one of those... Salary doesn't make a player a game changer.

albany ed 10-25-2019 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maniac (Post 138819)
And the vast majority of those are just decent players. Very few are game changers. Explain to me why Funchess is one of those... Salary doesn't make a player a game changer.

Of course salary doesn't make a player a game changer, but it does make me feel that Ballard, who I have enormous faith in, does value Funchess. He's big, and can create problems for the smaller DBs, and he's fast enough to be a mismatch for any LBer. Like Ebron, he's a red zone man. When he returns, we'll see, I can't wait.

Maniac 10-25-2019 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albany ed (Post 138844)
Of course salary doesn't make a player a game changer, but it does make me feel that Ballard, who I have enormous faith in, does value Funchess. He's big, and can create problems for the smaller DBs, and he's fast enough to be a mismatch for any LBer. Like Ebron, he's a red zone man. When he returns, we'll see, I can't wait.

Of course Ballard valued him or he wouldn't have signed him, but people need to stop with the over the top and frankly silly praise for someone who hasn't done anything yet. Calling someone a game changer when they are in their 5th season in the league and have two 100 yard games for their career is just ridiculous.

Look, I hope the kid does great. I hope he shows out and becomes what we need for a second receiver, but I am not annointing him with what he has done so far.

albany ed 10-25-2019 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maniac (Post 138849)
Of course Ballard valued him or he wouldn't have signed him, but people need to stop with the over the top and frankly silly praise for someone who hasn't done anything yet. Calling someone a game changer when they are in their 5th season in the league and have two 100 yard games for their career is just ridiculous.

Look, I hope the kid does great. I hope he shows out and becomes what we need for a second receiver, but I am not annointing him with what he has done so far.

You're right, I'll just think of him as a POTENTIAL game changer.

Chromeburn 10-25-2019 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maniac (Post 138849)
Of course Ballard valued him or he wouldn't have signed him, but people need to stop with the over the top and frankly silly praise for someone who hasn't done anything yet. Calling someone a game changer when they are in their 5th season in the league and have two 100 yard games for their career is just ridiculous.

Look, I hope the kid does great. I hope he shows out and becomes what we need for a second receiver, but I am not annointing him with what he has done so far.

You obviously haven’t seen Deon Cain the game changing 2nd year/rookie who is tearing up the league just like everyone said he would because of a few positive practice reports.

albany ed 10-25-2019 09:59 AM

One of the things I especially like about Frank Reich's schemes is there are a variety of possible game changers, depending on who they play, how he anticipates the scheme of the opposing defense and the matchups he can take advantage of. If you had to pick out some game changers from last week, who would you pick?

Pez 10-25-2019 10:34 AM

Jacoby Brissett, Zach Pascal, Eric Ebron, Frank Reich

rcubed 10-25-2019 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chromeburn (Post 138859)
You obviously haven’t seen Deon Cain the game changing 2nd year/rookie who is tearing up the league just like everyone said he would because of a few positive practice reports.

Deon. Fucking. Cain.

Colts And Orioles 10-28-2019 01:03 PM

o


(vs. BRONCOS, 10/27)


Frank Reich, on Jacoby Brissett's escape from Von Miller AND long completion to T.Y. Hilton on the same play ........



https://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/27944984


o

Oldcolt 10-28-2019 01:09 PM

Jacoby is getting himself some national love

https://sports.yahoo.com/peter-schra...140832097.html

To me that throw on the run (something he wasn't supposed to be capable of) after escaping Von Miller was most definitely not a throw that a qb who only 'manages' the game makes. If our last qb made that throw everyone would be saying it was a throw that shows how he can put a team on his back and win in spite of the team.

YDFL Commish 10-28-2019 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oldcolt (Post 139585)
Jacoby is getting himself some national love

https://sports.yahoo.com/peter-schra...140832097.html

To me that throw on the run (something he wasn't supposed to be capable of) after escaping Von Miller was most definitely not a throw that a qb who only 'manages' the game makes. If our last qb made that throw everyone would be saying it was a throw that shows how he can put a team on his back and win in spite of the team.

I'll eat some crow. Because just last week, I said that throwing on the run was an area of Jacoby's game that he needed to work on.

Well that throw was an absolute laser from Jacoby.

ChoppedWood 10-28-2019 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YDFL Commish (Post 139624)
I'll eat some crow. Because just last week, I said that throwing on the run was an area of Jacoby's game that he needed to work on.

Well that throw was an absolute laser from Jacoby.

I think he has only one flaw- and that being too timid to try to force the ball into a spot with a guy playing tight coverage on the man he wants to hit- and that's not a minor weakness- it is gonna end up biting us hard in the ass at some critical juncture...if he doesn't overcome it.

I just have to believe that Siriani and Reich can coach it into him. By and large this D, for some of the shortcomings they have illustrated, have proven that they can carry the water after a TO. I want to see a game where he throws caution to the wind and uncorks the ball and see what happens. If he can develop that skill, shit Brissett may end up being a league MVP type guy.

omahacolt 10-28-2019 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChoppedWood (Post 139625)
I think he has only one flaw- and that being too timid to try to force the ball into a spot with a guy playing tight coverage on the man he wants to hit- and that's not a minor weakness- it is gonna end up biting us hard in the ass at some critical juncture...if he doesn't overcome it.

I just have to believe that Siriani and Reich can coach it into him. By and large this D, for some of the shortcomings they have illustrated, have proven that they can carry the water after a TO. I want to see a game where he throws caution to the wind and uncorks the ball and see what happens. If he can develop that skill, shit Brissett may end up being a league MVP type guy.

His deep ball timing is terrible

ChoppedWood 10-28-2019 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by omahacolt (Post 139630)
His deep ball timing is terrible

Similar deal- trust it and let the MF'er go- twice on those throws to Cain- though they've gotten us big chunks- he's .5 to .75 too late- let the fucker go and trust your guys to make a play! The throw on the run to TY- damn man you can't throw a ball any better- just gotta be willing to try it more in the scheme than in a moment of despair.

Oldcolt 10-28-2019 08:59 PM

Agree on deep ball. Not so sure I want him to try to throw into tighter coverage. Love his lack of interceptions.

TheMugwump 10-28-2019 09:13 PM

Game Manager = Low interception rate

albany ed 10-29-2019 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMugwump (Post 139653)
Game Manager = Low interception rate

More accurately put, Game Managers have a low interception rate,

Low Interception rate does not necessarily = Game Manager

Chromeburn 10-29-2019 12:09 PM

I would like to see him get the ball out under 3 seconds. He holds onto to it too long. He is awesome at escaping thankfully. If he wasn’t his sack numbers would be huge. But ideally I would like to see 2.5 seconds then release. Maybe Funchess and Campbell will help this, but he needs to get the ball out. Even with this line it is too long.

albany ed 10-29-2019 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chromeburn (Post 139695)
I would like to see him get the ball out under 3 seconds. He holds onto to it too long. He is awesome at escaping thankfully. If he wasn’t his sack numbers would be huge. But ideally I would like to see 2.5 seconds then release. Maybe Funchess and Campbell will help this, but he needs to get the ball out. Even with this line it is too long.

I think it's his inability to go through his progressions quickly. If his first look isn't open, he just takes too long finding the 2nd and 3rd option. Hopefully, he can improve this, or the playoffs will be 1 and done.

VeveJones007 10-29-2019 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albany ed (Post 139714)
I think it's his inability to go through his progressions quickly. If his first look isn't open, he just takes too long finding the 2nd and 3rd option. Hopefully, he can improve this, or the playoffs will be 1 and done.

This has been a common refrain that I've seen on Twitter and I don't agree with it. I've looked at every play and Brissett is missing about 2-3 reads per game. In other words, he's been grading at over 90% on reading the field.

I broke this down in my recap of the Chiefs game, but Mahomes missed at least 5 big plays that easily would've swung the game against the Colts. Every QB has some up and down games and hardly anyone is perfect in that regard.

VeveJones007 10-29-2019 04:21 PM

I'm heading out on vacation tomorrow and won't be able to grade the DEN and PIT games until after the MIA game, but here's where I think Brissett is after 7 games:

Pros:
-Has an NFL arm; you don't have to limit the playbook in that regard
-Works the pocket well
-Hard to bring down, can extend plays
-Puts very few throws in harms way

Areas for Improvement:
-More refined timing. At times, he isn't in sync with receivers, particularly on the deep ball.
-Needs to help receivers get open more often via timing/ball placement and using his eyes.
-When evading pressure, keep eyes downfield for big play. He's had a few more of these in recent games, so we're already seeing improvement here.
-Ball protection vs the rush

Needs Further Evaluation:
-Blitz reads, particularly hitting the hot read. This is something I want to key on when I watch the Denver game. However, it may be that the play design lacks the necessary option or the receiver missed it.

‪Overall, I'd grade him as a B/B+ through 7 games. He’s certainly answered whether or not he’s a Top 20 QB. The question now is whether he can improve enough to warrant Top 10 and “Franchise QB” consideration.‬

ChoppedWood 10-29-2019 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeveJones007 (Post 139742)
I'm heading out on vacation tomorrow and won't be able to grade the DEN and PIT games until after the MIA game, but here's where I think Brissett is after 7 games:

Pros:
-Has an NFL arm; you don't have to limit the playbook in that regard
-Works the pocket well
-Hard to bring down, can extend plays
-Puts very few throws in harms way

Areas for Improvement:
-More refined timing. At times, he isn't in sync with receivers, particularly on the deep ball.
-Needs to help receivers get open more often via timing/ball placement and using his eyes.
-When evading pressure, keep eyes downfield for big play. He's had a few more of these in recent games, so we're already seeing improvement here.
-Ball protection vs the rush

Needs Further Evaluation:
-Blitz reads, particularly hitting the hot read. This is something I want to key on when I watch the Denver game. However, it may be that the play design lacks the necessary option or the receiver missed it.

‪Overall, I'd grade him as a B/B+ through 7 games. He’s certainly answered whether or not he’s a Top 20 QB. The question now is whether he can improve enough to warrant Top 10 and “Franchise QB” consideration.‬

Great analysis as usual. For a guy that really has call it 2 years of starting experience under his belt- the guy has shown a lot of promise. Refine some of the rough edges and we may have something exceptional in JB.


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