I don’t place my opinion on championships alone, although as a field general, you are considered the most important cog in winning. Brady leads Manning in every stat. Passing yards, completions, passing TDs, rushing TDs and passer rating. Like I said, I love Manning, but if I take off my blue tinted glasses and see the world the way every single expert outside of Colts mafia does, Brady is the GOAT.

Absolutely not, Colts fandom aside. Manning was a #1 pick had the weight of the world as far as expectations coming to an organization known for losing on Sunday.

He was a coach on the field he transcended the game of football. Brady and Belicheck started to copy the Colts playing style.

Brady had no pressure from the moment he stepped on the field. He had a great defense, great coach, and clutch kicker.

He may have won more championships but no QB was asked to do more in his career than the true GOAT and that’s Peyton fuckin Manning

I just disagree that either one of them are the greatest of all time. Unitas, for instance, changed how the game was played. His career was way more impactful on the NFL than either of Manning or Brady. I would take Manning any day over Brady however, as would many non Colt fans i have had this conversation with or read. It is a fun argument, i wish they both were still in their prime-life was better for us then.

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I thought that Manning was greater than Unitas.

Manning was an absolte freak-of-nature in regard to reading defenses, and audibling in and out of plays at the line-of-scrimmage ...... I had never seen anything like that before he came along, or since he retired.

In 2012, Manning ...... in his very first season with a brand- new team ...... took all of 5 games to single-handedly transform a previously mediocre Denver Broncos offense into an offensive juggernaut that resembled the 2005 Indianapolis Colts. In the divisional playoffs against the Baltimore Ravens he put 35 points on the board, and only one of the biggest defensive blunders in the history of professional football post-season play allowed the Ravens to score the game-tying TD on a 70-yard bomb with only 30 seconds left to play and no timeouts to send that game into overtime ...... if not for that blunder, it is highly likely that the Broncos would have easily beaten the Patriots in the AFC championship game that year (like they did the following year in 2013), and won the Super Bowl against the 49ers.


All of that said, I think that an argument can be made for Dan Marino being the greatest quarterback of all-time, and I will get into that in my next post.

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In 1995 when I was 30 years-old, I was talking to a man who was 55 ...... that man had seen Sammy Baugh and Sid Luckman play in their primes.


I asked him who he thought was the greatest quarterback of all-time, and he said, l "Dan Marino."

So what did my dumb-ass, 30 year-old self say ??? I said, l "But Marino's teams only made it to 1 Super Bowl, and they were beaten badly."

His reply ??? He said, l "That's now what you asked ...... you said quarterback, not world championships."



And so a man who had seen Sammy Baugh, Sid Luckman, Otto Graham, YA Tittle, Johnny Unitas, Bart Starr, and Joe Montana all play in their primes clued my stupid ass in on determining what constitutes a great quarterback.

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I'm sorry, but that's just wrong. Brady had better playoff luck that was mostly due to cheating, Manning was the better QB. You don't even have to take my word for it, the AP voted Manning MVP 5 times in a 17 year career and Brady MVP 3 times in a 23 year career. Manning was the first QB to pass for over 70,000 yards and 500 TDs. Neither longevity nor cheating make Tom Brady a better QB than Peyton Manning.

Manning also changed how the game was played. QBs didn't do half the shit they do now at the line while reading the defense before Manning. Tom Moore would send Manning in 3 play calls, and he would choose at the line which one to run based on how he read the defense. That's a somewhat common practice now that was completely unheard of before Peyton Manning.

I view Manning vs. Brady a lot like Jordan vs. LeBron at this point. Both are great players, but there is a clear better one in both sports, and in neither case is it the one whose numbers and case are built on longevity.

and right now there are some 12 lads in KC that are convinced that Patrick Mahomes is the GOAT and you old timers (anyone over 30) just wanna stick to your memories.

This has been bandied about a bit. But Many people think that Manning was greatest regular season QB.

I would agree with that

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Patrick Mahomes is a better quarterback than Tom Brady......I would takes Patrick Mahomes over Tom Brady 10 times out of 10.

If I had a choice between Patrick Mahomes, Dan Marino, and Peyton Manning, I would have to think about it......but I would take any one of those 3 over Tom Brady.

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One stat you failed to mention is tainted seasons due to the player and/or his team cheating. Brady easily leads in that category at 9+ seasons to 0 for Manning.

This is incorrect as KC already had their possession. If we had scored a TD we would have won.

It's super retarded since if we score a TD the game's over. This is pretty similar to when SS went super conservative last year vs. the Donks when we got to within ~60 yard FG range. Only then we were bailed out by the Donks ST penalty.

Jeff Saturday

Which one would you take with those Patriot defenses. Marino would have slaughtered teams. Peyton would have kept his defenses fresh with long possessions.

Manning was the best QB period. He wasn't on the best teams, unfortunately, but he was the best QB to ever play the game.

He had 23 seasons to Manning's 17, OF COURSE he should have better counting stats than Manning. Manning kills him on a per game basis, however, and again, Manning won 5 MVPs in 17 NFL seasons, Brady won 3 in 23. This is a no brainer if you look past the very surface of the numbers.

I wouldn't say he kills him, Here are some per game stats

Manning 270 ypg. 2 TD per game
Brady 266 ypg 1.9 TD per game

However, Manning does kill Brady in total interceptions

Manning 251 - 27 of which were pick sixes
Brady 212 - 13 of which were pick sixes

This is a fun argument you guys are having. My own opinion is that there is no one QB who historically just stands head and shoulders above everyone else. Everyone thinks the greatest of all time was a player they watched, 40 years from now neither Brady or Maning will be the GOAT for those fans, it will be somebody not even born yet. Having said that Brady and Manning played in the same era and in my opinion Manning was way better than Brady at their peak. Without Manning the Colts were mediocre, without Brady the Patriots were still contenders.

You're correct, there are differing opinions on the subject, fans of their favorite team want their QB to be the GOAT

There are some who say Otto Graham was the GOAT
There are some who say Unitas was the GOAT
There are some who say Montana was the GOAT
There are some who say Marino was the GOAT
There are some who say Elway was the GOAT
There are some who say Manning was the GOAT
There are some who say Mahomes is the GOAT

But most say Brady was the GOAT

I do agree, in the regular season, Manning was the best, but in the playoffs, he was not.

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Bill Bellichick's best season as a coach was 2008 ...... when the Patriots went 11-5 with Matt Casssell at quarterback when Tom Brady missed the entire season with a knee injury.

Since 1978 when the 16-game schedule was implemented, only 2 teams did not make the playoffs with a final record of 11-5 ...... the 1985 Denver Broncos, and the 2008 New England Patriots.

The only reason why the 2008 Patriots did not make the playoffs that year was because the AFC was stacked that season. It was the antithesis of when Peyton Manning missed the entire 2011 season with an injury, and the Colts wound up going 2-14. The 2020 Colts with Philip Rivers at QB were in the same exact position as were those 2008 Patriots (an 11-5 record), but were fortunate that a #7 seed was added to the NFL post-season tournament for the first time ever.


On the other hand, it was clear that Peyton Manning was almost singlehandedly keeping the Colts together in 2010 when they went 10-6 to win the AFC South title that season ...... when Manning missed the entire 2011 season the Colts started out at 0-13, and finished at 2-14.

But ....... but ...... but ...... but what if Matt Cassel had been the Colts' quarterback that season instead of Curtis Painter or Dan Orlovsky ???

Maybe ....... maybe those 2011 Colts would have gone 4-12 instead of 2-14 if an average QB like Matt Cassell had been taking snaps behind the center instead of Curtis Painter and/or Dan Orlovsky.




FINAL NOTE: l After going 11-5 with Matt Cassell at quarterback in 2008, the 2009 Patriots got a prime Tom Brady back the next season ...... and they went 10-6. Not only did the 2009 Patriots make the playoffs, but they won their division title. In their first playoff game, on their homefield eastern Massachusetts, they were crushed by the Baltimore Ravens by a score of 33-14.




The 2008 Patriots Will Forever be Bill Belichick’s True Masterpiece

(By Michael Self)

http://draftamerica.com/the-2008-pat...e-masterpiece/


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We should contextualize these numbers for post-2011. People conflate the effect of 2011, 2004, and 1994 changes... but '94 and '04 were more blips that regressed whereas 2011 ushered in the inflationary passing era.

Brady played roughly 57% of his 23 seasons post-2011. 8 of his 10 best seasons are post-2011 when he was older Brady. Same for Brees, Roethlisberger, Rivers, Eli, etc. 70-80% of their best seasons are post-2011.

Manning pretty much only got three seasons of happy hour and he set the record for 3-year and single-season touchdowns while not being able to feel his fingers.

Coincidence? Did he magically get better when he was old and broken? Extrapolate that ecosystem for another 69 games and Manning's totals crush.

It's similar to how people act like Marvin vs. TO is a slam-dunk for Owens because the easiest metric to look at is career totals... but if you do a real-time side-by-side of metrics, Marvin doesn't just outperform TO—it's actually kind of a slaughter.

Like Dam said... a lot of the MJ-Lebron debate devolves solely into rings vs. counting stats which is dumb. There is a cumulative framework to look at which gives a clearer answer.

Manning was first-team All-Pro 7x and aside from 2008 when Brady was hurt, they all came head-to-head with Brady. The further we get away from real-time of those seasons, the more the argument becomes rings and counting stats.

I only brought in the numbers because of the accusation that Bradys' 23 seasons skewed his numbers against Mannings' 17. Perhaps the best way to gauge this is to rely on the rankings of the experts. Most Pats fans will choose Brady as the GOAT whereas most Colts fans will choose Manning as the GOAT. Most neutral fans and most experts will choose Brady. It's interesting that Jeff Saturday chose Brady as the GOAT. Of course, his football knowledge cannot compare to the fans on this board.

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Here is some more historical context regarding quarterbacks dealing with the rules of the game for the time in which they played, when comparing quarterbacks from the 1940's through the Present ...... which is why the statistics of quarterbacks such as Sonny Jurgensen, Y.A. Tittle, Sammy, Baugh, and Sid Luckman would look pedestrian or even bad in today's game.



A) lPrior to 1974, a defensive player could hit a receiver an unlimited number of times down-field, so long as the ball was not in the air.

Starting in 1974, the most severe rule change regarding pass receivers and defenders was enacted ...... a player could only make contact 2 times overall, and one time beyond 3 yards of the line of scrimmage. This makes one appreciate what Otto Graham, Johnny Unitas, Fran Tarkenton, Bart Starr, Sonny Jurgensen, etc. accomplished. These quarterbacks all had most or all of their careers played prior to the 1974 season.

B) lIn 1977, the rule was amended to aid the pass receivers again. Starting that season, a defender could only make contact with a receiver one time ...... whether it be within 3 yards of the line of scrimmage, or further downfield.

C) lIn 1978, the rule was amended to aid the pass receivers yet again. Starting that season, a defender could make contact with a receiver only one time, and within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage. If the defender made contact with a receiver 6 yards or more from the line of scrimmage, it was now considered to be pass interference (and/or defensive holding), even if the ball was not yet in the air.



* l In the last 15-20 years (circa 2005 through the present), more rule changes protecting both the receivers and the quarterbacks has allowed offensive statistics to increase even higher than they already had been.

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John Lennon was part of what was arguably the best and most influential rock band of all-time.

John Lennon thought that he had a terrible voice, and often double-tracked his vocals because he was embarrassed by his own singing ........ and Lennon that that Yoko Ono had a great voice.


Some of the greatest players in the history of sports were terrible coaches, terrible managers, and terrible GM's.

Being an all-time great at your profession does not necessarily make you an expert and/or intimately knowledgeable about the profession that you excelled in.

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And being fans of a player definitely qualify you as an expert? Come on man, most experts to a man rate Brady as the GOAT, but this message board with its UNBIASED opinion is the only place that has it correct. :rolleyes:

Nobody is unbiased, that include you and me Albany. I completely disagree with your way of deciding, by taking and dividing their career into playoff and nonplayoff. Shit Bradys first two super bowl wins-which i assume you would put in the column that says Brady was GOAT-ocured in years Manning was MVP. Brady never won the Super Bowl the years he won MVP. Being the best QB in the game doesn't come close to guaranteeing post season success, it does guarantee you will be in the hunt for the post season. Having the best team is what counts in post season. Manning was able to cover for a ton of holes the colts had in regular season. In post season, when you are playing motivated teams with better talent, he couldn't pull it off as easily. Nobody can.

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I didn't say that......YOU were the one who pointed out that Jeff Saturday's opinion carried weight, which is not necessarily credible simply based on the fact that he is a Hall-of-Fame center. .

Regarding the analysis of the fans here on Colt Freaks, several of them (including myself) have parsed and disassembled your assertion that Tom Brady was necessarily the best quarterback of all-time. Your argument is ''Tom Brady is the GOAT because I said so, Jeff Saturday said so, and most experts say so.''

You can stand by the generic claim that Tom Brady is the greatest quarterback back of all-time. I, like several other posters here, choose to believe more objective, detailed, and thorough analysis.

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And me ...... I am not unbiased ...... which is why I lean towards the argument that Dan Marino may have been a better quarterback than Peyton Manning.

I'm a Colts fan, and as impressed as I am with Peyton Manning being the biggest freak-of-nature in regard to reading defenses and audibling in and out of plays at the line-of-scrimmage, I cannot dispute that I favor him emotionally because of the unform that he wore for most of his career.

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Dan Marino's teams made it to 1 Super Bowl in his entire career, and they got blown off of the field by the 49ers.

Terry Bradshaw's teams made it to 4 Super Bowls, and they won all 4 of them ...... and Bradshaw was the MVP in 2 of those 4 Super Bowl wins.

Dan Marino was a better quarterback ...... considerably better.....than Terry Bradshaw.

Fran Tarkenton and Jim Kelly were also better quarterbacks than Terry Bradshaw.

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Nobody is a expert in who the GOAT is because there is nothing to base it on other than your opinion. I have never seen anyones win one of these arguments.

No one has, and likely will ever, control the game at the level Peyton did. There was a period where he was essentially unstoppable. Not gonna get into all the statistical depths etc... Peyton, Michael, Tiger, those three are the unquestioned greatest of all time at what they did and it has nothing to do with stats, titles, MVP's, it has to do with the way they set a bar that others have tried to reach, and they can't.

I would say Peyton, Michael, Nicklaus, Gretzky.

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I would like to elaborate on the notion of comparing the opinions and analysis of experts to the opinions and analysis of some of the posters here on ColtFreaks.


I would bet a nickel that albany ed, YDFL Commish, and oldcolt all know more about Colts history ...... both Baltimore and Indianapolis ...... than Jeff Saturday and many of the experts on ESPN, the Football Network, and numerous other sports spheres/domains.

In fact, I would bet a nickel that albany ed, YDFL Commich, and oldcolt know more about ALL football history ...... the Colts and the other 31 professional football franchises ...... than many of the experts that I alluded to.


So yes, being that albany ed rhetorically asked me if I thought that some posters on a Colts fan website can be taken as seriously many experts, I would say that there are at least a good 5 or 6 posters here on ColtFreaks (including albany ed) whose analysis and viewpoint whom I would value just as much if not more than I would the cast of sportswriters/sportscaster/former players, etc whom often chime in with their opinions on football players and/or football teams.

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Great post. And, I should have known better than to say anyone other than Peyton Manning was the GOAT on this board.

It was a great post on this board. Took balls knowing you'd get tons of shit for it. It is the most enjoyable discussion we have had on this board this shitty football year. Nobody gives a rats ass about this team this year, at least compared to years past.

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I care about this 2026 Colts team as much as I cared about any other Colts team.

Aside from the fact that caring about the Colts is in my DNA regardless of how good or bad they are (including the disastrous 2011 season, when they started out at 0-13 and finished up at 2-14), I want to see this 2026 team win at least 10 games and demonstrate that they are closer to the 2025 team that was 8-2 before Daniel Jones broke his leg in the Chiefs game than the team that went 0-6 after that Chiefs game.

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Interesting discussion. I know any GOAT debate is all about opinion, but I feel like how you would answer these two questions should tell you who you think the GOAT is in any sport:

1) You're starting a new franchise and you can pick any player from the history of the sport to start that franchise. Who are you picking?

2) It’s the final drive of the game, your team has the ball but needs a TD to win. Who do you want leading the drive? (This is football specific but can easily be rewritten for any other sport.)

For me, the answer to both of those questions is Peyton Manning.

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Peyton Manning.

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Roger Staubach, Dan Marino, or Patrick Mahomes.

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