Stroud played better than I thought he would in his first season I’m not gonna lie. He was lights out for a few weeks there against some pretty solid defenses and has pretty average WR. His poise in the last game was amazing for a rookie so I’d say Dam your assessment of him was correct…… however I voted AR and in the short sample size of what we seen that was with NO Jonathan Taylor I’m still convinced AR is the man and will do things we’ve never seen before from a QB. This dudes gonna be legendary.

I know gms and owners say a lot of bullshit but I fully believe if AR and Stroud were both sitting there Colts would’ve taken AR over Stroud

exactly


its fucking insane the amount of ego on that guy. nobody wants to sift through his patting himself on the back to understand his fucking point.

o


I voted for Stroud, but I knew that the Colts had no shot to get him ...... I voted for who I wanted, not who I thought would be available by the time that the Colts picked.

Richardson would have been my 2nd choice.

o

I can determine that he did not live up to his word when he said that if a franchise QB was available, he would move heaven and earth to get him. The formerly available franchise QB is now a Texan because Ballard did not move heaven and earth (trade to 1) to get him.

So you don't care for nuance at all? I already said everyone was wrong about the 2021 QB class. In some cases, those QBs came in with fatal flaws, in some cases the team destroyed the development of the QB, all 5 of them appear to be busts now. I do wish I had made more noise about Brock Purdy at the time, he impressed me when I was watching Breece Hall and Charlie Kolar film.

Because the rest of the world, no less than half of this board included, was ready to anoint him the next Peyton Manning when he came into the league. I correctly predicted that he would never be that, or even close, and seemingly was on an island by myself with that opinion (I think maybe Chris Simms was the only draft media person that didn't have Lawrence as QB1 and Player 1 that year). The only space Trevor Lawrence occupies in my head is as the prime example of "QBs who can't read a defense".

Bullshit. Most people said things like "I don't really have a preference between the 4 QBs, I'll just trust whatever the Colts FO does." That's fine, but you don't get to come back 8 months later claiming a strong opinion on any of them then. Most people who actually ranked the QBs had Young ahead of Stroud. All that poll, entitled "Who do you want at 4?" shows is that most people didn't think any of the QBs were worth trading up for, which was the prevailing sentiment at the time, and most people didn't think Stroud would get to 4, which makes sense because unless Jack Easterby was still running the Texans there's no way he should've gotten past 2 (and the Panthers are kind of stupid for not taking him at 1). It shows that most people thought Richardson was better than Levis, which you didn't have to squint too hard to see. Clearly one of those QBs was worth trading up for.

I really don't feel it's fair to be held accountable for a dysfunctional organization fucking up a QB, because it wasn't my decisions that fucked up the QB. I couldn't control what the Cheats did to Jones (though if I could I'd've probably traded him because fuck the Cheats), I couldn't control what the Jets did to Wilson, and I can't control what the Panthers do to Young. Sometimes shitty franchises ruin good players.

The discussion will stop if you stop replying. I enjoy discussion, especially on topics I feel strongly about.

If Richardson doesn't pan out, I won't be the only Colts fan that will count all the franchise QBs Ballard missed believing in him.

I did that to show that I actually do reconsider my positions and change them when the evidence shows I should. Once again, with Wilson and Jones, I firmly believe their organizations did several disservices to their development, so while they likely won't be good NFL QBs now, no one will ever know what would've happened if they went to situations better suited to their success. I'll certainly say that the Jets shouldn't have drafted Wilson and the Cheats shouldn't have drafted Jones based on what they did to them, but, as an example, if either had gone to a situation like Jordan Love's, I think either of them would've turned out better than Jordan Love.

As for Daniel Jones, I vaguely remember a discussion where I said he could be a top 15 QB this year. I don't think that was as outlandish of a claim as you make it out to be. Obviously he wasn't because he got hurt, but based on his 2022, "league average starter" was not an outlandish claim for Daniel Jones.

The poll is clearly worded in such a way that "at 4" is a consideration in the vote. That makes it objective evidence that the votes reflect who people want "at 4", which allows people to make assumptions of which 3 players will be picked by that point. Most people would've assumed Stroud and Young to be gone at that point, and wouldn't have voted for them for that reason. It seems you may be the only one on the board who believed Stroud would be available at 4, because both C & O and I have said we did not take "at 4" into consideration and voted for who we wanted.

I think you would agree that there is a difference in these two positions:

1) Stroud is the best of the 4 QBs but it is a very close group.

2) Stroud is hands down, far and away the best QB in this class because he's the most pro ready and carries the least risk factors.

The first position (the one you professed in your post) would lead you to stand pat and take whoever falls to you at 4.

The second position (my position since January 2023) would cause you to move heaven and earth to get to 1.

Would you prefer 95% odds of getting the thing you want or 50% odds? That's why I'm frustrated. If you want me to stop talking about it, stop coming back to reply. I enjoy the discussion, but discussion takes more than one party.

This post, coming from you, is hilarious. No one on this board has a bigger ego than you, and for some reason everyone just lets you get away with it. I have strong opinions, I won't deny that, and I don't back down on them, especially not because "conventional wisdom" says I'm wrong. "Conventional wisdom" leads to a lot of stupid conclusions, and too many football media experts and quite frankly front offices are too heavily influenced by it. So I'm not going to back down from my opinions when I form them just because "conventional wisdom" says to do so. If you want to get me to say I'm wrong, show me evidence.

Thank you for illustrating my point. Did anyone here besides me want to move up to 1 for Stroud? I doubt it, or if they did, they were very quiet about it. As things stand today, it seems like it would've been the right move.

Absolutely. I was never that comfortable with the class. Stroud was my preference, but not to the point of trading up. I believe that was also the case for the other guys who preferred Stroud, aside from yourself.

I'm cautious by nature, so as solid as he's looked this season, I still hold off concluding that he was in fact worth trading for. Especially because AR showed qualities I didn't think he'd developed already. I don't just hope, but legitimately think, that AR can become something scary based off the little we saw of him.

Not that I don't completely understand you feeling vindicated.

I absolutely get that sentiment. There's certainly still a chance that Richardson could be better than Stroud. I still hope he is. The thing I don't like is that we're still saying "chance" and "hope" about our team's guy and the front office let a division rival get what is likely to be the OROY and a franchise QB when they could've gone and gotten the franchise QB and let the division rival be talking about "chance" and "hope".

o


I didn't illustrate your point. I was alluding to the fact that the Colts were picking 4th, that Stroud was going to be picked no lower than 2nd or 3rd, and that there was no indication that they were going to magically and necessarily be offered a fair deal to trade up for him. Don't speak for me and/or suppose anything other than what I wrote.

o

My point was that most people voted in that poll based on availability, and those of us who voted for Stroud likely did so without that restriction in mind. Did you not say that you voted for who you wanted and you didn't think Stroud would be there at 4? Funny, that's what your post says.

Stop bringing it up in every thread that relates to the Texans or our quarterback. That is what I mean by harping on it.

o


Yes, that's exactly what I said, which does not illustrate your point. You said that you wanted to trade up for Stroud, and I didn't say anything of the sort.



There is nothing "funny" about what I said.

o

This is the point it illustrates:

I'm inclined to bring up whatever I want whenever I want, as anyone else around here can, too.

Richardson will have a better career than Stroud.

Bold prediction, hope you're right.

Me too, cuz then I can come to the board and say over and over and over and over again that I was right.

That would be great for you. I'd enjoy the championships more.

We do not moderate what is brought up, but if you want people to think you are a decent fellow, I would encourage you to drop it. (Said with absolute love in my heart for all mankind)

No, you can't at this point b/c that statement assumes that Stroud will stay healthy and continue to at least be as good as he was his rookie year and that AR will continue to be injury plagued or he won't improve on what we did see on the field this year (which was pretty damn promising).

Totally get your sentiment that a bird in the hand is better than 2 in the bush, but Ballard drafted AR w/ the long game in mind rather than just his rookie year. If 2-3 years down the road Stroud is an all pro and AR can't stay on the field or doesn't develop then I will completely agree w/ you that Ballard fucked up by not trading up to draft Stroud. But the fact is that it's WAY too early to say that Ballard definitely fucked up. Especially when you consider that despite the injury concerns AR still has the higher ceiling.



I absolutely care for and think nuance is important, but what you do isn't adding nuance. You make definitive statements based on hypotheticals to try to prove that you're not wrong.

Adding nuance is stating something like: Yeah, I was wrong about Wilson. Dudes a total bust. But I don't think the Jets did him any favors by throwing him to the wolves, and if they had let him sit for part or all of his rookie year it might have worked out better. Certainly couldn't have hurt anything.

What you say (paraphrasing): I wasn't wrong on Wilson. The Jets fucked up. If they had listened to me and sat him his rookie year he'd be a really good QB.

Also, BTW: I disagree w/ that sentiment on Wilson. The dude's basically the Gen Z version of Ryan Leaf, only with pill popping swapped out for milf hunting.


I'm not disagreeing with you that Lawrence hasn't and in all likelihood won't live up to expectations. I do think the book isn't near as closed on him as you think it is, but I digress. The point I've been making is that you bring him up ALL THE TIME. Even when the discussion has absolutely nothing to do with him whatsoever (like how you did on this thread).

Calling BS again. As Chaos backed me up on, there were quite a few of us here who specifically said that we did not want the Colts to draft Young. I don't see how anyone who made that statement would have Young ranked higher than Stroud. It has been almost a year and a ton of beers since then, so maybe there were more people on here who liked Young than I remember. But I definitely remember that there was a good portion of us on here who did not want Young at all.

I don't disagree w/ this, but in your effort to be always right you state these circumstances as the definite root cause as to why a given player you liked hasn't or didn't work out. It could very well be that the said player just isn't a good, NFL quality player.

I honestly forget what this was a response to. I think it was that I was again trying to get through your thick head that it's too early to definitely say that staying put and drafting AR instead of trading up for Stroud is the franchise killing disaster that you claim it is.

If AR doesn't pan out then Ballard is probably gone. With that said as much shit as I give Ballard on here, I fully admit he's good at his job. Certainly better than his predecessor and better than any of us armchair GMs on here would be. Also, he's shown that he won't hesitate to cut bait like he did w/ Wentz. I think we need to give him leeway for the next season or 2 before we start calling for him to replace AR.

Like I said earlier, admitting you were wrong was a good step forward. You should try it more often.

Basically you thought he could be a top 15 QB. I balked at this. Then you came back w/ saying that you watched film on him, that he showed well in said film, and that you predicted that he would improve upon his '22 season and have a good year in '23. This obviously didn't happen, and not just b/c he got hurt ~1/3 of the way through the season. He was GOD AWFUL prior to that.

As with C&O, you're trying to speak for me. I answered the poll w/ how it read: Who do you want the Colts to draft at 4? and not Who do you want the Colts to draft at 4 that you think will likely be there? Fully understand why folks would think the 2nd part is implied, but I did not.

I also find it interesting that I am actually agreeing w/ you on something, but yet you seem to still want to argue about it.


A few observations on this: omaha says a lot of things in jest (or at least that's how they come across), whereas you do not. On top of that he'll bring up something once or twice and then let it go whereas you bring it up again, and again, and.......(out to infinity) again. Also, his statements seem come from him just wanting the Colts to be better, whereas yours are more about trying to prove that you're right above anything else. Maybe that's not your intent, but it's definitely how you come across on here. And I'm obviously not the only one who thinks so.

Hey, what's wrong with milf hunting?

Nothing really I guess lol. And I really can't blame the guy for banging all of his mom's hot friends. I probably would too.

But seemed like all of that was a pretty big off the field distraction, which probably didn't help with his lack of development as a QB.

You clearly understand what I'm saying. Stroud is already showing it, and the Colts could've had him if they wanted to make the investment. Yes, Richardson could have a better career, I hope he does, but right now the Texans have a franchise QB barring injury and the Colts might have a franchise QB if he can stay healthy. I can't put it better than what you did, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.


That paraphrase is pretty out there and not really what I say at all. Of course a franchise is going to implement what they believe is the best course for each player's development, and they would never listen to anyone outside their organization unless they specifically sought out that person as a consultant. Clearly, the Jets picked the wrong developmental path for Wilson. Maybe there wasn't a right one. That said, I don't know how much clearer I can be than:

I pretty much said exactly what you said was the "right way" to do it in the post you responded to, actually. So I truly don't get the point here. I guess I'll say it like this and then be done with it: If the Jets planned to do what they did to Zach Wilson, and the Cheats planned ro do what they did with Mac Jones, all parties would've been better off had those selections not been made. I think I said that part before, but I can't find it now.

He's the starting QB of a division rival, so always somewhat relevant here. He's also relevant to a discussion of the 2021 QB class. You brought up Mac Jones and Zach Wilson as points to discredit my opinion, why wouldn't I bring up one of the biggest points in the favor of the credibility of my opinion? Yes, I'm loudly going to proclaim the W on Trevor Lawrence, because I loudly and proudly got it right in the pre-draft process. Same reason I won't claim any sort of W on Purdy, I didn't say anything back then even though I saw him back then watching Breece Hall and Charlie Kolar and thought he stood out on film more than you would expect from a college QB who nobody had ranked highly.

Please show me the posted rankings or the posts where anyone but me is saying that Stroud is clearly better than Young and should be taken before him. The only posted rankings I saw or remembered were someone in that poll who put Young at 1 ahead of Stroud and I think Chromeburn did like a full scouting report on each of the top 4 QBs, dedicating a post to each, had Young at the top, and said he did them in the order of his ranking. By the way, props to Chromeburn on that, it's a lot of time and effort to make something like that.

I get not wanting to draft Young, his height was a clear risk, but that doesn't mean you thought Stroud was better or wanted to draft him. Clearly you, specifically, did, based on the vote in the poll, but I think you and I were more the exception than the rule.

Absolutely that possibility exists, I already acknowledged it earlier in this post. I state circumstances because they're relevant factors in why a player might not have worked out. Mac Jones and Zach Wilson don't look like they'll be starting NFL QBs at this point, but I'd bet if the Cheats and Jets each cut those QBs, they'd find another team. That's because most NFL teams saw both players as having significant talent coming out of college, and there's probably some team out there that believes they can still unlock that potential.

Never claimed it was a franchise killing disaster, just frustrating to be holding a lottery ticket when it's clear the annoying next door neighbor cashed theirs in for the jackpot.

This, as much as anything, is what frustrates me about this situation. Ballard is a great GM, I'd argue top 5 in the league at the very least. His job now rides on the right arm of Anthony Richardson. It could've rode on the right arm of C.J. Stroud and been much more secure. Maybe Richardson will work our better in the end, or maybe Irsay fires Ballard and replaces him with we won't know who until it happens, but the likelihood of it being an upgrade is slim to none.

You're going to need to quote me on that. I believe the discussion was on QBs who could have a better year than Jalen Hurts, and one that you scoffed just as hard at as Daniel Jones who I was FAR more confident in than Daniel Jones was Dak Prescott. I should've included C.J. Stroud in the group, clearly. As far as the film part, I've never watched film on Daniel Jones and never claimed to. You might be confusing me with Lawrence Owen on that part, he did a whole feature on his YouTube channel about the Colts pursuing Daniel Jones in the offseason. I was never interested in that, either, as I always believed his ceiling was mid-tier starter.

I wasn't speaking for anyone. Based on what you said here, a more interesting question would then be: Did you believe that Stroud would be on the board at 4? If not, did you want to trade up for him or do you think what happened was the best course of action given the circumstances? Do you think drafting Levis at 4, as Ballard suggested would've happened had a different team traded up to 3 and drafted Richardson, would've been preferable to trading up to 1 for Stroud?

There are clear points of disagreement, and it seems also clear points of misunderstanding. Those are the things from which the continued discussion is borne.

Omaha acts like he's better than everyone else constantly and most of the things he says "in jest" are insults to people who dare to disagree with him. Honestly, if I acted the way Omaha does on this board, I'd expect to get treated the way I get treated. I do say some things in jest, one example earlier in this post would be the line about putting Stroud in the "could be better than Hurts this year" group at the beginning of the season, no one could've seen that coming from Stroud. As a Colts fan, ultimately what I want in every situation is for the Colts to get better. I'd love to see them put together a dynasty the likes of which makes the Cheats fans jealous, all the more because it was accomplished without cheating. That said, I do enjoy the game of football, and talking about the game of football, beyond just being a Colts fan. I enjoy learning about everything about the game, from the on field chess match of strategy that's constantly going on to the players whose drive and talent change and evolve those things even down to contract structure and how various clauses and contract language affect the salary cap. Point being the things I say may not be only about the Colts being better, because I enjoy all aspects of football as football beyond just the Colts.

Of course, not many conversations here break out about the subtle differences between Cover 3 and Cover 7 and in which situations you'd prefer to have the MEG (man everywhere he goes) half of the field vs. the situations where it would be preferable to have full zone or the implications of likely to be earned vs. not likely to be earned incentives in contracts for players and the impact it will have on the cap for teams, but when they do, I'll be all about them.