Originally Posted by sherck (Post 8756)

Okay, last post for a while in the draft thread. I found a 5-round mock on Walter Football that indicates that someone understands the weaknesses of the Colts:

1-15 (#015) ILB Reuban Foster, Alabama
Foster is a vicious hitter with elite playmaking range and an ability to toggle between 225 and 240 pounds. Athleticism gives him cover ability that former teammate Reggie Ragland never possessed. Has Pro Bowl potential as a 3-4 inside linebacker or a 4-3 weak-side linebacker, but concerns over his medical history could be a consideration, according to some teams.

2-14 (#046) OLB Charles Harris, Missouri
High-cut pass rusher with good athleticism but concerns regarding his ability to drop anchor against the run. Ironically, Harris might be best suited as a penetrator which is something he fought against this season. His hands can be improved as pass rush weapons, but he has agility and footwork that can't be taught. Harris can play on the edge in a 4-3 or 3-4 front and should be the next in a line of early contributing defensive ends coming out of Missouri.

3-16 (#080) CB Cameron Sutton, Tennessee
Four-year starter with the fluidity to handle man coverage on the outside, but lacking desired physicality and run-support traits that zone teams covet. Sutton flashed outstanding ball production his first two seasons but saw his per-game production drop since. Could be forced inside due to a lack of size on next level. Punt-return ability could be what gets him on the field first.

4-15 (#121) ILB Anthony Walker, Northwestern
Has packed muscle onto his frame that looks good in the uniform but might be limiting his flexibility and athletic ability. A productive, downhill linebacker who misses too many tackles and struggles as a take-on player. He checks all the desired boxes for football and personal character and can be counted on to do what it takes to improve his game. He could become a decent starting linebacker within his first few years.

4-31 (#137) RB Samaje Perine, OklahomaPerine is a physical runner who can create additional yardage through power and can be a complimentary "banger" for a team who already has a slasher. Perine doesn't have the burst or play speed to be a dynamic lead back, but he can handle a heavy workload if needed and he should become an immediate short-yardage and goal-line option.

4-38 (#144) CB Rasul Douglas, West Virginia
Douglas has rare size for the position and his 2016 interception total will add to the level of intrigue for NFL teams. There is no doubting Douglas' ability to make plays on the ball when he's in position, but his lack of long speed and closing burst could make his big senior season an anomaly. Douglas is a zone corner with press and trail ability but needs to run a reasonable time at the combine to solidify his draft slotting. (Note: Ran a 4.59 at combine.)

5-14 (#158) NT Josh Tupou, Colorado
Does one thing and one thing only -- eat up space. Doesn't have enough reactive quickness or even functional movement to find himself in many plays that aren't right at him, but his size and anchor gives him a shot with a team who values pure girth for early downs.

Foster in the first and Harris in the 2nd round are probably stretches for being available but this kind of draft could really help the Colts.

Cheers,

Originally Posted by HoosierinFL (Post 8792)

I suspect we are definitely drafting a TE in round 3 or 4 anyway so any mock that omits that will be wrong.

Originally Posted by YDFL Commish (Post 8807)

I don't know who is reliable as far as mock drafts and player rankings go. It is truly becoming bizarre.

I've seen some players going anywhere from the early 1st round to the 3rd round, depending on who's mock draft you're looking at.

So the quandary is, trust the talking heads, or do your own film study and decide from there?

Bottom line is though, there are only probably a handful of players in each round that you can accurately predict will be chosen in that round.

Originally Posted by VeveJones007 (Post 8813)

That last point is what gets Kiper into trouble.

Originally Posted by Butter (Post 8816)

Sure, but the hair. That has to count for something.
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images...air_helmet.jpg

Originally Posted by njcoltfan (Post 8758)

I'll take Thomas, McKinley and Baker and be thrilled !!!!

Originally Posted by sherck (Post 8833)

So, if your choice was to:

A) Stand pat at 1-15 and pick from one of: Derek Barnett, Hasson Riddick or Takkarist McKinley.

B) Or trade down into the 20s to pick up an additional mid-round selections and pick from one of: Charles Harris, T.J. Watt, Taco Charleston.

Which scenario do you prefer?

I guess my real scenario is; there appears to be an "elite" grouping of front-7 defenders that includes: Myles Garrett, Solomon Thomas, Jonathan Allen and Reuben Foster. Those guys are almost always picked by just about everyone in or near the top ten.

Then? Lots of diverging opinions.

Is Hasson Riddick a middle of the 1st round pick or a bottom of the 1st round pick?
Is Derek Barnett a middle of the 1st round pick or a bottom of the 1st round pick?
Is Takkarist McKinley a middle of the 1st round pick or a bottom of the 1st round pick?
Is Taco Charleston a middle of the 1st round pick or a bottom of the 1st round pick?

T.J. Watt? Charles Harris? Both seem to be a bottom of the 1st round or top of the 2nd round picks.

Do you like Riddick, Barnett, McKinley or Charleston better than Watt or Harris?

I love the idea of moving down if possible to fill more holes and I just don't know if I see a lot of difference between those guys once you get past the "elite" bunch.

Does anyone else?

Cheers,

Originally Posted by natagu23 (Post 8824)

Lookout for this Forrest Lamp kid- Guard Western Kentucky

This guy can play pretty much every position on the line and i mean every position.

He shined versus Alabama.

This is a pick that could solidify the oline but could warrant the surprised "Who?" reaction if we call his name come the 15th pick.

Originally Posted by sherck (Post 8833)

So, if your choice was to:

A) Stand pat at 1-15 and pick from one of: Derek Barnett, Hasson Riddick or Takkarist McKinley.

B) Or trade down into the 20s to pick up an additional mid-round selections and pick from one of: Charles Harris, T.J. Watt, Taco Charleston.

Which scenario do you prefer?

I guess my real scenario is; there appears to be an "elite" grouping of front-7 defenders that includes: Myles Garrett, Solomon Thomas, Jonathan Allen and Reuben Foster. Those guys are almost always picked by just about everyone in or near the top ten.

Then? Lots of diverging opinions.

Is Hasson Riddick a middle of the 1st round pick or a bottom of the 1st round pick?
Is Derek Barnett a middle of the 1st round pick or a bottom of the 1st round pick?
Is Takkarist McKinley a middle of the 1st round pick or a bottom of the 1st round pick?
Is Taco Charleston a middle of the 1st round pick or a bottom of the 1st round pick?

T.J. Watt? Charles Harris? Both seem to be a bottom of the 1st round or top of the 2nd round picks.

Do you like Riddick, Barnett, McKinley or Charleston better than Watt or Harris?

I love the idea of moving down if possible to fill more holes and I just don't know if I see a lot of difference between those guys once you get past the "elite" bunch.

Does anyone else?

Cheers,

Originally Posted by VeveJones007 (Post 8795)

Why do you say that? They are high on Swoope and need to see if he continues to perform with more playing time. Do you really want to add a TE in round 3 or 4 who is on the bench for most of the year when you could potentially add a solid defender?

Originally Posted by VeveJones007 (Post 8857)

It's a tough call. I think Reddick could be a similar player to Robert Mathis with his explosive athleticism. That's hard to pass up at 15.

That being said, Reddick won't be there and Barnett/Taco aren't good enough to bypass a chance to move down. I'm hoping for a trade down and grabbing Harris later in Rd 1.

Originally Posted by Dam8610 (Post 8871)

If the Colts end up trading to the back of the first round, I'm hoping they'll take T.J. Watt at that point, but I'd prefer to get Reddick at 15.

Originally Posted by natagu23 (Post 8897)

Trade back.

Grab Gareon Conley at corner later in the first and pick up a couple of picks.

Sherck might like this little tidbit....Conley had the lowest QB rating in the nation when targeted according to PFF.

Conley is the 2nd best Corner in the draft imo. He could easily turn into a pro-bowler if he learns to use his hands more.

Originally Posted by HoosierinFL (Post 8858)

They just about flat out said the main reason they were willing to trade Allen was because they were excited about the TE depth in this draft and wanted more picks. To me this means they thought they could get rid of Allen's larger contract and injury history and draft a replacement.

Originally Posted by sherck (Post 8872)

My thought process for the first round:

Option A = If one of the "elite" defenders falls to 1-15 (OLB Myles Garrett, 3-tech DT Jonathan Allen, S Jamal Adams, CB Marshon Lattimore, 3-tech DT Solomon Thomas or ILB Reuben Foster) then you take them regardless of position. Their chances to be long-term impactful players are excellent.

Option B = If none of the "elite" defenders are available but either 1) Derek Barnett or 2) Hasson Riddick are available you draft them at 1-15.

Option C = If none of the above are available, you trade back to the mid 20s (1 or 2 jumps back) and you pick 1) T.J. Watt, 2) Charles Harris, 3) Taco Charleston or 4) Carl Lawson.

I think Watt has the makings of an elite pass rusher, much like his brother. I think he needs to add another 15-20 pounds of muscle to his frame but I think he is a guy that you can move all over the field to get a good matchup.

I don't mind Charles Harris or Carl Lawson or Taco Charleston but I want one of Barnett, Riddick or Watt.

I would pass on Tim Williams (too dumb to pick up Alabama defensive system?), Jordan Willis (one trick pony with outside rush only), Malik McDowell (I don't see dominance), Zach Cunningham (little pass rush ability) or Takkarist McKinley (did not learn any technique in 3 years at UCLA, unteachable?).

As a later round pass rusher, I like Washington's Joe Mathis. He is probably a 1st round draft pick if his season had not been cut short after only 6 games in 2016. He probably will not contribute much in 2017 but he would be drafted for the future.

Cheers,

Originally Posted by VeveJones007 (Post 8901)

I just don't see it with Barnett. The guy is a one trick pony right now. Maybe he can be coached up, but that's too much of a risk for me if Harris is on the board. If you trade down and Harris is gone, then I'm ok with Barnett.

Originally Posted by VeveJones007 (Post 8899)

I'm not sure Conley will be there at 15, much less later in Rd 1.

Originally Posted by VeveJones007 (Post 8901)

I just don't see it with Barnett. The guy is a one trick pony right now. Maybe he can be coached up, but that's too much of a risk for me if Harris is on the board. If you trade down and Harris is gone, then I'm ok with Barnett.

Originally Posted by natagu23 (Post 8824)

Lookout for this Forrest Lamp kid- Guard Western Kentucky

This guy can play pretty much every position on the line and i mean every position.

He shined versus Alabama.

This is a pick that could solidify the oline but could warrant the surprised "Who?" reaction if we call his name come the 15th pick.

Originally Posted by natagu23 (Post 8824)

Lookout for this Forrest Lamp kid- Guard Western Kentucky

This guy can play pretty much every position on the line and i mean every position.

He shined versus Alabama.

This is a pick that could solidify the oline but could warrant the surprised "Who?" reaction if we call his name come the 15th pick.

Originally Posted by Dam8610 (Post 8951)

His listing as a guard makes me doubt his athleticism to hold up at LT in the NFL, though admittedly I've watched no film of him. That said, LT is the only OL position worth a Top 15 pick.

Originally Posted by Coltsalr (Post 8962)

We're much closer to an OL that Luck would be capable of winning a Super Bowl behind than we are to having a top 15 defense, that's for damn sure.

Originally Posted by Puck (Post 8963)

I think you are underestimating what Ballard has already done. Simon is going to be a stud and I think Sheard will be a huge improvement.. There are plenty of pieces in rounds 2-4 to get this D to where it needs to be.

TBO they probably only need to be top 20 to beat even the Pats, if Luck has time to throw and the Oline can run block.

Originally Posted by Coltsalr (Post 8966)

I'm actually pretty high on Sheard/Simon too. I think Simon will be an improvement over Walden and I think Sheard alone will be a fairly massive improvement over Cole/Mathis, who were both completely tapped out last year.

I do however worry that since neither has proven they can handle full slate of starters reps that we'll need plenty of depth at the position. Depth that we certainly don't already have.

And I'm also very concerned about the ILB corps. Sean Spence might be a nice piece, but that's actually one of the moves that Ballard has made that I'm most down on. Morrison/Jackson showed me nothing last year that would indicate that they're capable of being good NFL starters. God help us if we start the season with them.

That said, I say all of that to say that, again, I will never bitch if they go full-on with the OL. I agree, if we suddenly have Dallas' OL, then sure, that could really do some interesting things for us. It's not the path that I would take, but if they did do so, I wouldn't be stark raving mad over it.

TE and WR are the only positions that if we draft in the 1st round that I'll literally lose my mind. I'd prefer not to draft RB/CB/S/OL, but I could at least see why they would do so (Yes, I believe that Cook is THAT good that if we drafted him in the 1st that with time it would be justifiable, but no, it's NOT what I would do).

That was some Pete fence-sitting right there, wasn't it?

Originally Posted by Puck (Post 8957)

We need a guard more than a tackle and I couldn't care less about what a pick is worth on paper.... I care about the biggest need on the team and that is Andrew Luck. Without him you can have all the pass rush and Dline and CB's in the world and this team is going no where behind that oline.

This team is not going to built around defense as long as Luck is the QB. It will be built around him and rightfully so.

Look what an improvement the oline made with adding the best OC in the draft last yr. Look at what Dallas did!

Again there are plenty of defense available in rounds 2-4.

We dont need the 86 Bears D to win. They need to be top 15 to win the SB if Luck is healthy. We need a healthy Andrew Luck, who isnt getting killed every play.

Originally Posted by njcoltfan (Post 8933)

You know that Barnett had more career sacks at Tennessee than Reggie White? I really don't care that he is a "one trick pony", because that "one trick" is getting to the QB, exactly what the defense is lacking. If he is there at 15 ( and he probably won't be) I'd have the card up to the podium while Goodell was still hugging the Eagles pick !!

Originally Posted by VeveJones007 (Post 8990)

QBs will just step up in the pocket every play if Barnett doesn't get an inside move. He doesn't have it right now. He racked up those sacks by beating guys around the edge and using his strength against weak opponents.

I'm not saying that he won't be a good pro. I just see the limitations in his current game. He could get some good coaching and overcome it, but right now he's a slightly better Erik Walden.

Originally Posted by FatDT (Post 9017)

I think it's out of line to look at 3 years of consistent SEC production and say he racked up empty sacks against weak competition. You can say that for one year, sure. Two is pushing it. Three, no. He is a playmaker. He may have some developing to do, what rookie doesn't? But his game translates to the NFL a lot better than an undersized track athlete just running around his blocker every play. I'll be happy if we get him in the 1st.

Originally Posted by VeveJones007 (Post 9024)

You're misunderstanding what I meant by "weak." I meant weaker than the tackles he'll match up against in the NFL. We'll see if his strength translates.

Still, I trust Harris's current skill set to translate better than Barnett's. Harris has the inside moves and awareness that Barnett doesn't quite have at this moment. To say it another way, I think Harris has a higher floor.